VZCZCXRO4266
PP RUEHDH RUEHROV
DE RUEHRH #0152/01 0331341
ZNY CCCCC ZZH
P 021341Z FEB 10
FM AMEMBASSY RIYADH
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 2428
INFO RUEHXK/ARAB ISRAELI COLLECTIVE
RUEHZM/GULF COOPERATION COUNCIL COLLECTIVE
RUEHDH/AMCONSUL DHAHRAN 0471
RUEHJI/AMCONSUL JEDDAH 0582

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 RIYADH 000152 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
DEPARTMENT FOR DRL JLIEBERMAN AND NEA/ARP JBERNDT AND 
JHARRIS 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 01/30/2020 
TAGS: KDEM KISL KJUS PGOV PHUM PINR PREL SA
SUBJECT: MOJ REPORTS SOME PROGRESS ON LEGAL REFORMS; STILL 
NO LAW REGULATING CHILD MARRIAGE 
 
REF: A. 09 RIYADH 1086 
     ¶B. 09 RIYADH 1512 
     ¶C. 09 RIYADH 361 
     ¶D. 09 RIYADH 875 
     ¶E. 09 RIYADH 1026 
     ¶F. 09 RIYADH 596 
 
RIYADH 00000152  001.2 OF 004 
 
 
Classified By: Ambassador James B. Smith for reasons 1.4 (b and d) 
 
¶1. (S)  SUMMARY:  Ambassador Smith, engaged in a frank and 
wide-ranging discussion with Minister of Justice Dr. Mohammed 
Al-Issa on January 27.  Dr. Al-Issa spoke candidly about the 
challenges he faced in implementing King Abdullah's reform 
agenda, citing several examples of recent progress such as 
the creation of an appellate court system; the drafting of 
new Laws of Judicial Procedure and Laws of Criminal 
Procedure, the development of a Code of Judicial Principles; 
and increased training opportunities for judges.  Dr. Al-Issa 
clarified that open court sessions were the norm in Saudi 
Arabia and noted that the MOJ suffered from "baseless media 
coverage."  He  revealed that the MOJ is continuing to 
examine the issues of allowing women lawyers to practice in 
court, and still planned a "law prohibiting child marriage." 
Throughout, Dr. Al-Issa emphasized that the King's reforms 
would remain consistent with Saudi Arabia's culture and 
constitution, the Quran.  No other MOJ officials or 
notetakers were present during the meeting, which may have 
been a reflection of Dr. Al-Issa's desire to speak as frankly 
as possible about the debate taking place in the Kingdom's 
legal community.  End summary. 
 
¶2. (U) Dr. Al-Issa first praised the Ambassador for the 
proactive role he had taken in strengthening the U.S. - Saudi 
relationship during the first several months on the job, 
commenting on the Ambassador's admirable record of USAF 
service.  The Ambassador replied that he was pleased to be in 
the Kingdom during a very unique time, when the visions of 
President Obama and of King Abdullah so closely coincided, 
and remarked on the challenges Dr. Al-Issa was facing as he 
tried to implement a key part of the King's reform agenda. 
 
 
AL-ISSA: PUBLIC OPINION SUPPORTS JUDICIAL REFORM 
--------------------------------------------- --- 
 
¶3. (C) According to Dr. Al-Issa, reforms currently underway 
include the creation of a three-tiered court system, 
consisting of courts of first instance, appellate courts, and 
a supreme court; the development of a code of judicial 
principles; and new judicial training programs.  The 
appellate courts had recently become operational, Dr. Al-Issa 
continued, and the SAG was about to pass both new Laws of 
Judicial Procedure before Shariah Courts and new Laws of 
Criminal Procedure -- efforts in which Dr. Al-Issa himself 
had been personally involved.  The new laws were developed 
following numerous visits and scientific exchanges with 
"friendly nations," Al-Issa stressed, and encompassed best 
litigation practices as observed elsewhere.  To resolve the 
issue of conflicting verdicts, a code of judicial principles 
was being developed to streamline decisions.  Last but not 
least, the MOJ had begun to implement judicial  exchange 
programs with other countries aimed at broadening Saudi 
judges' exposure to other legal systems. 
 
¶4. (C) The Ambassador then asked about the impact of public 
opinion on judicial reform.  In general, public opinion was 
supportive of the reform efforts, Dr. Al-Issa said, noting 
that King Abdullah asked the MOJ to conduct a "self survey" 
to measure public opinion on its projects.  Following four 
months of scientific review and an MOJ-conducted survey, the 
MOJ concluded that the public was happy with the MOJ's 
activities.  He noted that the "scientific review" process 
involved the scholarly exchange of judges.  The judicial 
reform program was "very ambitious," Dr. Al-Issa concluded, 
as there was a set agenda and a timeline for the project. 
 
 
INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE PLANNED FOR 2010 
----------------------------------------- 
 
¶5. (C) As part of its efforts to broaden Saudi judges' 
exposure the SAG was planning an international legal 
conference in May 2010.  Dr. Al-Issa hoped that the planned 
amendments to both the Law of Procedure before Shariah Courts 
and the Law of Criminal Procedure would be completed in time 
 
RIYADH 00000152  002.2 OF 004 
 
 
for discussion at the conference.  He also detailed the MOJ's 
current and future efforts to enroll judges and lawyers in 
educational conferences, workshops and seminars.  "I have no 
doubt that the Saudi judicial system will become a beacon for 
all the judicial systems in the region," Dr. Al-Issa 
concluded. 
 
 
COURTS AND THE MEDIA 
-------------------- 
 
¶6. (C) Ambassador Smith commented on recent press reports of 
open court sessions in Medina, and asked whether Dr. Al-Issa 
thought this practice should be emulated throughout the 
Kingdom.  Dr. Al-Issa responded that open court sessions were 
the norm in the Kingdom -- the only exceptions were for cases 
involving family feuds, or cases involving litigants who had 
asked specifically for closed sessions.  There might be 
individuals in the court system who denied people access, he 
acknowledged, but this was wrong.  He had never heard of a 
case where a person wanted to attend a court session and was 
not able to, and if he did he would take action to rectify 
this illegal situation.  "We suffer from a great deal of 
baseless media coverage," he said, citing the case of the 
student in Jubail who faced two months in prison and 90 
lashes for assaulting a school principal and for bringing a 
mobile camera phone to school in violation of school policy, 
as a recent example of the media getting its facts wrong. 
The press had reported the student was  a 12-year old minor, 
and the public had criticized the harshness of the verdict 
against a minor.  In fact, the accused was 21 years old.  He 
thought this case also illustrated the point that in certain 
cases closed court sessions were needed, and a case-by-case 
determination was necessary. 
 
 
TIME FOR WOMEN LAWYERS? 
----------------------- 
 
¶7. (C) Ambassador Smith then raised the issue of women 
lawyers.  According to press reports, the MOJ planned to 
issue restrictive licenses to female lawyers, giving them, 
for the first time, access to certain areas of the courts so 
that they could represent female clients.  At present, women 
lawyers could not represent their clients in court.  Dr. 
Al-Issa confirmed that the MOJ was currently reviewing the 
Law of Lawyers, which stipulates that a lawyer must be a man. 
The MOJ's study was based on the premise that the law does 
not prohibit women lawyers and that women have the right to 
practice law from both a Shariah and a legal perspective.  He 
noted that, historically, female lawyers had existed, and the 
Legal Practice Code did not stipulate that lawyers must be 
male.  The current situation rested on public opinion. 
However, social norms were changing and women lawyers were 
becoming a necessity due to the increasing number of cases 
involving women. 
 
 
STILL NO LAW ON MINIMUM AGE FOR MARRIAGE 
---------------------------------------- 
 
¶8. (C) Ambassador Smith asked about progress on setting a 
minimum legal age for marriage (reftel A), noting the recent 
case of the marriage of a 12-year old girl in Qassim to a man 
in his eighties.  These cases were not in the press 
coincidentally, Dr. Al-Issa explained, they were part of a 
conscious effort to develop social opinion, encourage social 
change, and question certain ideologies and beliefs.  Dr. 
Al-Issa noted that such cases were never made public in the 
past, but happened in secrecy, and officials were not aware 
of the extent of the problem.  He said the facts of these 
cases were often "heart-wrenching" and involved extortion. 
Dr. Al-Issa said there will be a law prohibiting child 
marriage "in the near future" and insisted that the MOJ 
intends to be very firm on this issue. 
 
 
CHALLENGES TO IMPLEMENTING CHANGE 
--------------------------------- 
 
¶9. (C) Dr. Al-Issa acknowledged the challenges the MOJ faced 
in implementing change, noting that they used a step-by-step, 
"phased approach," that incorporated "open dialogue and 
conversation."  To accomplish change, they must take into 
account the opinions of both those favoring change, and those 
 
RIYADH 00000152  003.2 OF 004 
 
 
opposing it.  He said the MOJ engaged the public on all 
levels -- at the scholarly level, in workshops and at 
conferences -- and planned to intensify its outreach efforts. 
 He noted that the MOJ had won over many skeptics by 
concentrating on first changing public opinion.  He 
emphasized that while the SAG was spearheading change, this 
change did not conflict with Saudi Arabia's values or its 
constitutional basis.  Rather, these were gradual changes 
that were necessary given the changing nature of Saudi 
society. 
 
 
TIP AND CLDP 
------------ 
 
¶10.  (C) Ambassador Smith stressed the Embassy's readiness to 
assist the MOJ in its efforts underway to combat TIP, 
mentioning training and exchanges as possible areas of 
cooperation.  Dr. Al-Issa thanked the Ambassador for his 
initiative and said he anticipated the future fruitful 
cooperation between the U.S. and the SAG, which would be 
strengthened by the on-going rapport between the parties. 
The Ambassador then mentioned the Commercial Law Development 
Program (CLDP) as another area for future cooperation. 
(NOTE: The CLDP had been the subject of discussion at a 
November 8 meeting between Charge and Dr. Al-Issa (reftel B), 
during which Dr. Al-Issa had expressed a desire to create a 
liaison office that would be responsible for communicating 
and following up with the Embassy towards the implementation 
of the CLDP.  END NOTE.)  The Ambassador mentioned that the 
Ministry of Foreign Affairs had not responded to the 
Embassy's diplomatic note concerning an impending USCS 
delegation's visit to work on the CLDP.  Dr. Al-Issa said 
that he was not aware of the visit.   The matter had been 
delegated to Sheikh Ibrahim, the Chairman of the Board of 
Grievances, which was responsible for trade and commercial 
matters, including commercial courts, and operated 
independently of the MOJ.  He said commercial programs were 
not currently under the umbrella of the MOJ, but that the MOJ 
would have oversight over these matters in the future. 
 
 
KUDOS FOR US EXCHANGE AND VISITOR PROGRAMS 
------------------------------------------ 
 
¶11. (C) Dr. Al-Issa expressed his gratitude to the Ambassador 
for his kind offers of cooperation and for past visits 
facilitated by the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh involving 
Intellectual Property Rights, Judicial exchange programs to 
the U.S. and visits from USCS officials.  He stressed that he 
would welcome more workshops to benefit the Judiciary, such 
as the workshop conducted 18 months ago in which the Ministry 
of Commerce hosted members of the U.S. Judiciary.  He 
evaluated this program as "highly useful" and as "elevating 
competencies on both sides." 
 
 
COMMENT 
------- 
 
¶12. (C) The scope of King Abdullah's planned judicial reforms 
is daunting and, based on Al-Issa's candid observations, the 
pace of implementation remains slow.  The creation of the 
appellate courts is one tangible success whose effects are 
already being felt (septel).  Many other important issues 
remain under MOJ study, such as the drafting and storing of 
legal decisions and the creation of judicial precedent; 
developing systems of continuing legal education for lawyers 
and judges; developing the field of legal journalism; and 
allowing women lawyers to practice in the courts.  Our 
continued support for the workshops, visits, and judicial 
exchanges being proposed by Dr. Al-Issa would provide 
opportunities for communication and cross-fertilization as 
the MOJ grapples with these important issues.  Dr. Al-Issa's 
turnaround on the CLDP was noteworthy, as he had expressed 
his desire for a liaison office to be responsible for 
following up with the Embassy on the CLDP program.  This may 
reflect some difference of opinion between the Board of 
Grievances and MOJ over who has jurisdiction on the issue. 
 
¶13. (C) COMMENT CONTINUED: Dr. Al-Issa met with the 
Ambassador alone, which was an unusual practice for this kind 
of meeting.  This enabled Dr. Al-Issa to conduct an 
extraordinarily frank discussion with Ambassador Smith 
concerning the SAG's efforts to shape public opinion to 
 
RIYADH 00000152  004.2 OF 004 
 
 
advance its reform efforts.  Press coverage of the meeting 
was also sparse.   These two omissions in combination suggest 
that the MOJ did not want to draw attention to the meeting 
between Ambassador Smith and Dr. Al-Issa.  Al-Issa appears to 
be treading carefully as he pushes the conservative legal 
community to implement the King's reform agenda and tries to 
build domestic support for what he views as necessary and 
culturally consistent reforms.  END COMMENT. 
 
 
 
 
SMITH