VZCZCXRO2241
PP RUEHCHI RUEHDT RUEHNH
DE RUEHHM #0053/01 0431031
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
P 121031Z FEB 10
FM AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 6321
INFO RUEHHI/AMEMBASSY HANOI PRIORITY 4203
RUCNASE/ASEAN MEMBER COLLECTIVE
RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY PRIORITY 6564

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HO CHI MINH CITY 000053 
 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/AWH AND DRL/IRF 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: KIRF PHUM PGOV PREL VM
SUBJECT: CHURCH LEADERS SHARE SOUTHERN VIEW ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WITH 
DAS MARCIEL 
 
HO CHI MIN 00000053  001.2 OF 002 
 
 
¶1. (C) Summary:  During DAS Marciel's meetings with Cardinal 
Pham Minh Man and Pastor Le Quoc Huy of the Grace Baptist Church 
on February 7 and 8, respectively, both religious leaders 
affirmed Vietnam has made significant progress on ensuring the 
majority of Vietnam's Christians can practice their faith more 
freely.  Both leaders, however, agreed that more needed to be 
done to promote tolerance and allow religious groups to expand 
their role in social work and education in Vietnam.  End summary. 
 
 
 
Cardinal Man: Climate for Catholics 
 
----------------------------------- 
 
¶2. (C) Cardinal Man told DAS Marciel during their February 7 
meeting that religious issues in Vietnam were like the weather, 
"mostly hot, rarely cold and sometimes cooler."  Alluding to the 
recent clashes between Catholics and police in Dong Chiem, the 
Cardinal said things were finally "starting to cool down," but 
the Church remains deeply concerned about ongoing property 
issues.  On GVN-Vatican relations, Man was more positive than in 
previous meetings, noting that the increasing number of 
high-level visits was a sign the GVN wanted closer ties.  While 
Man once asserted that Vietnam would not move to establish 
relations with the Vatican before China, this time he said the 
pace of normalization would depend on the Communist Party's 
views here. 
 
 
 
¶3. (C) Cardinal Man said the Church was beginning to rebuild its 
social work institutions, noting two hundred of the four hundred 
organizations they had prior to 1975 have now been 
re-established.  During President Triet's recent pre-Tet call on 
the Cardinal, Man asked for more autonomy in managing the 
Church's charitable programs, noting that religious workers 
wanted to be 'administrators, not just employees.'  On the 
positive side, the Cardinal said the Church would continue its 
assistance to people living with HIV/AIDS and has begun to 
expand its support to the disabled.  The Cardinal also said the 
Church would like to get involved in education again, and 
believes the Church could provide a more ethical education for 
Vietnam's growing number of young Catholic professionals. 
 
 
 
¶4. (C) Cardinal Man concluded the meeting by saying while 
Vietnamese people enjoyed more religious freedom now than in 
previous years, the government still could not guarantee the 
right to practice one's faith freely.  DAS Marciel assured the 
Cardinal the USG would continue to encourage the GVN to improve 
its dialogue with religious groups and promote the continued 
expansion of religious freedom in Vietnam. 
 
 
 
Southern Baptists Doing Alright 
 
------------------------------- 
 
¶5. (C) Pastor Le Quoc Huy, General Secretary of the Grace 
Baptist Church, painted a largely positive picture during his 
February 8 meeting with DAS Marciel.  As part of their 50th 
anniversary celebrations, Grace Baptist recently hosted a 
high-level delegation from the U.S. Southern Baptist Convention, 
including a visit by former President of the U.S. Southern 
Baptist Convention Dr. Bobby Welch.  Dr. Welch and other church 
representatives had just returned from Hanoi, where they held 
productive meetings with senior-level GVN officials, including 
the acting Chairman of the National Committee for Religious 
Affairs, the head of the Vietnam Fatherland Front and the Vice 
Chairman of the Communist Party's Mass Mobilization Committee. 
 
 
 
¶6. (C) Like most Protestant groups in Vietnam, Huy said times 
were tough for Grace Baptist Church members after the war. 
Foreign missionaries fled, and the church went underground. 
Pastors were routinely called in by security forces.  In the 
1990's, congregations began to increase and stabilize, but 
restrictions remained.  While churches in urban areas had fewer 
problems, provincial followers faced forced renunciations and 
police intimidation.  Huy said the GVN exhibited more 
"flexibility" after Vietnam liberalized its laws on religion in 
2006, which finally culminated in the Grace Baptist church 
achieving national recognition in 2008. 
 
 
 
HO CHI MIN 00000053  002.2 OF 002 
 
 
 
¶7. (C) Grace Baptist's new status meant they could open an 
official bible school, engage in more international events and 
exchanges, and train new clergy.  It has become easier for 
congregations to register and to hold large events.  The church 
also has a number of properties that were confiscated after 
1975, and hoped recognition would aid in negotiations with 
Hanoi, though Huy felt it was unlikely the majority of 
properties would be returned.  Huy's optimism was tempered -- he 
noted that most of the unrecognized Protestant house churches 
still faced problems, including delays in registration and 
harassment in some provincial, rural areas. 
 
 
 
CPC Won't Help 
 
-------------- 
 
¶8. (C) DAS Marciel noted that negative incidents like the 
expulsion of Buddhist monks at Bat Nha pagoda and violence 
against Catholics at Dong Chiem are leading some NGOs and 
members of Congress to advocate more strongly in favor of 
putting Vietnam back on the CPC list.  Pastor Huy said the GVN 
was a "mixed picture" -- some officials are helpful and 
supportive, while some don't want to see things change.  Huy 
believes the GVN is "changing as fast as it can," and that 
putting Vietnam back on the CPC list would not result in 
significant or positive changes in GVN actions. DAS Marciel 
expressed his appreciation for Pastor Huy's frank and 
illuminating commentary, and hoped that Grace Baptist and other 
Protestant groups would continue to play a positive role in 
fostering better relations with the GVN. DAS Marciel assured Huy 
that he and other USG officials would continue to advocate for 
improved conditions for all religious groups in Vietnam. 
 
 
 
¶9. (U) DAS Marciel did not have an opportunity to clear this 
cable.  This cable was coordinated with Embassy Hanoi. 
FAIRFAX