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C O N F I D E N T I A L OTTAWA 000841 
 
SIPDIS 
AMEMBASSY OTTAWA PASS TO AMCONSUL QUEBEC 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 2019/11/17 
TAGS: PREL MOPS KGHG UNRWA IR AF PK CU CA
SUBJECT: Deputy Secretary Steinberg's Meeting with Canadian Foreign 
and Defence Policy Advisor Carriere 
 
CLASSIFIED BY: Scott Bellard, PolMinCouns; REASON: 1.4(B), (D) 
 
¶1.  (U) October 22, 2009, 11:15 a.m., Ottawa, Canada. 
 
 
 
¶2. (U) Participants: 
 
 
 
United States 
 
James Steinberg, Deputy Secretary 
 
David Jacobson, U.S. Ambassador to Canada 
 
Lourdes Cue, Special Assistant to the Deputy Secretary 
 
Kurt van der Walde, notetaker 
 
 
 
Canada 
 
Claude Carriere, Foreign and Defence Policy Advisor to the Prime 
Minister 
 
Gordon Venner, Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council 
Office 
 
 
 
¶3. (C) Summary: Deputy Secretary Steinberg briefed Canadian 
officials on U.S. deliberations on  Afghanistan strategy and the 
situation in Pakistan. He noted that the U.S. "has no illusions" 
that Iran's  short-term calculus in discussing low-enriched uranium 
(LEU) necessarily reflects changes in its long-term aspirations 
regarding  a nuclear capability. The Deputy Secretary and Canadian 
officials agreed on the importance of "smart"  sanctions with 
regard to Iran. On Honduras, the Deputy Secretary said that, 
without some change in the current circumstances, it is hard for 
the U.S. to  imagine that the election will be accepted broadly in 
the country and lead to a larger political resolution.  He 
described the Cuban regime as exhibiting a less confrontational 
stance bilaterally, but cautioned that Cuba has not shown support 
for changing the fundamental dynamic of the  relationship. On 
climate change, the Deputy Secretary told the Canadians that the 
U.S. wants to show  the world its seriousness and interest in 
change that is meaningful and real, using concrete steps.  Carriere 
said Canada is serious about environmental responsibility but will 
not make any commitments it  cannot meet. The Deputy Secretary made 
a special request to Canada to expedite its contribution to the UN 
Relief Works Agency, calling the fiscal situation for the agency 
"dire."  End summary. 
 
 
 
-------------- 
 
Afghanistan 
 
--------------- 
 
 
 
¶4. (C) Deputy Secretary Steinberg thanked Canada for its continued 
role in Afghanistan during his  meeting in Ottawa on October 22 
with Claude Carriere, Canadian Foreign and Defence Policy Advisor 
to  the Prime Minister, and Gordon Venner, Assistant Secretary to 
the Cabinet, Privy Council Office, Foreign and Defence Policy 
Secretariat. Carriere underlined the important U.S.-Canadian 
partnership in  Afghanistan and elsewhere in the world and 
expressed appreciation for the convergence of interests and values 
that promotes that partnership.  Carriere observed that Senator 
Kerry's recent travel to  Afghanistan was "ensuring the right 
outcome."  The Deputy Secretary observed that, based on his long 
relationship with President Karzai, the  Afghan leader is a man of 
"tremendous integrity" but someone who nonetheless viewed 
international  pressure on him after the election as a "sign of 
disrespect" toward Pashtuns.  The Deputy Secretary noted that 
Karzai's agreement to a run-off election "was not  foreordained" 
and took a "real effort by the U.S. and Europeans." Carriere 
agreed, saying that by the  time Prime Minister Harper called 
President Karzai on October 19, "he'd already been turned around." 
 
 
 
¶5. (C) The Deputy Secretary underscored the importance of Pashtun 
 
participation in the run-off  election.  Carriere expressed hopes 
for an election that the Afghan people view as credible and 
representative and noted that the international community then 
needs to  turn to governance issues. The Deputy Secretary responded 
that U.S. shares Canada's view on the  importance of governance 
issues. He added that the U.S. and our allies in Afghanistan need 
to focus on  "accountability and capability" by the Afghan 
government outside of Kabul.  He underlined that the Taliban gained 
broad public  support by providing stability and a form of justice. 
The Deputy Secretary said this task is "not  unachievable" but will 
require a "changed dynamic" on the ground. Carriere observed that 
Canadian  officials are frustrated because the news of "real 
progress doesn't get through to the public." The  Deputy Secretary 
added that U.S. public opinion is "evenly divided" and the 
administration is seeing  increasing challenges from Congress being 
linked solely to the number of troops that President Obama decides 
to send. 
 
 
 
¶6. (C) Carriere noted that the French "seem to be prepared to step 
up" in Afghanistan, noting their willingness to hold a pledging 
conference. The Deputy Secretary agreed on the importance of 
emphasizing the multilateral nature of engagement in Afghanistan. 
Strong French, British, and Canadian involvement remind domestic 
audiences that the effort in Afghanistan is not just a U.S. 
project. Carriere  shared that the French told Prime Minister 
Harper in a phone call on October 21 that they are not 
contemplating additional troops. 
 
 
 
----------- 
 
Pakistan 
 
----------- 
 
 
 
¶7. (C) Carriere observed that the "other element of the Afghan 
equation" is in Pakistan. The Deputy  Secretary agreed and 
underlined that the U.S. is seeking to convince Pakistani leaders 
that they have  created a category that does not exist- "'good' 
Taliban that only go West."  Carriere shared that Canada has deep 
concerns about Pakistan's  accountability for the aid it has 
received and continues to solicit through the Friends of Pakistan. 
Venner underlined that Canada is troubled by the relationship 
between the Pakistan intelligence and security services and Iran. 
The U.S. has been clear in telling the Iranians that we reject any 
quid pro quo on Iran's nuclear program in return for a constructive 
attitude in Afghanistan and Pakistan, according to the Deputy 
Secretary. He added that the Iranians are "putting out lots of 
feelers" to S/RAP Holbrooke. The Deputy Secretary concluded that 
Iran's interests in Pak-Af are "not fully incompatible" with ours. 
 
 
 
---------- 
 
Iran 
 
----------- 
 
 
 
¶8. (C) Canada is "pleased" with international community's united 
front regarding Iran's nuclear  ambitions, according to Carriere. 
He praised the Obama administration for engaging directly with 
Iran. The Deputy Secretary noted that the U.S. "has no illusions" 
that Iran's short-term calculus in discussing  low-enriched uranium 
(LEU) means that it has necessarily changed its long-term 
aspirations regarding a nuclear capability. The U.S.  believes that 
the next P5+1 message to the Iranians has to be that, even with 
progress on LEU, "we won't  take the pressure off" on the larger 
issue. Carriere inquired about Russia's stance in negotiations with 
Iran. The Deputy Secretary noted that Secretary Clinton was just in 
Moscow and had a series of  productive meetings but that Russia's 
views "remain to be seen." The Deputy Secretary added that he  had 
just returned from China and in his discussions no one disagreed 
with the larger U.S. objectives.  Nonetheless, he noted that an 
Iranian delegation to Beijing last week "did not feel sternly 
talked to."  The Deputy Secretary reiterated that even as we remain 
unclear about Iran's current strategy, it does not mean that the 
international community "cannot change Iran's calculus." 
 
 
¶9. (C) Venner (a former Canadian Ambassador to Teheran) inquired 
whether the U.S. believes we need  "more concrete sanctions" to get 
Iran's attention. The Deputy Secretary expressed a preference for 
targeted, "smart" sanctions that hit key constituencies like the 
IRGChard but do not create  a domestic public backlash in Iran. 
Venner pointed out that discussions of sanctions on refined 
petroleum products are likely to generate "economic rents" for the 
IRGC, which is heavily involved in  smuggling. The Deputy Secretary 
demurred, saying he encountered the same argument in the Balkans 
during the early 1990s. He noted that the "bad guys did collect 
their rents" but that those sanctions did  significantly undermine 
Milosevic. He hastened to add that "no one thinks it's a silver 
bullet, but it is  useful to have on the table. Venner countered 
that  "visa measures are the best way to get the regime's 
attention, but do we really want to cut off an entire  generation 
from contact with the West?" The Deputy Secretary said it was 
unclear whether average  Iranians would blame a visa ban on the 
West or their government. 
 
 
 
---------------- 
 
Honduras 
 
----------------- 
 
 
 
¶10. (C) Carriere observed that de facto Honduran President Robert 
Micheletti "really doesn't want to relinquish power" and inquired 
how the U.S. will "play the recognition of the elections." The 
Deputy Secretary said that under the current conditions it is hard 
for the U.S. to imagine that they will be accepted broadly 
domestically and lead to a larger political resolution that allows 
the country to move forward. Carriere expressed the view that the 
dispute seems to come down to personal enmity between Micheleti and 
deposed President Zelaya. The Deputy Secretary commented that 
Zelaya has shown more flexibility in negotiations, but noted that 
the de facto government believes that "nothing will be worse for 
them by sitting on the ball," so it is hard to motivate them to 
take decisive action. 
 
 
 
------------- 
 
Cuba 
 
------------- 
 
 
 
¶11. (C) The Deputy Secretary described the Cuban regime as 
exhibiting a "certain pragmatism," especially in regard to the 
bilateral migration talks. He cautioned, however, that U.S. 
analysts believe Cuba is not interested in changing the fundamental 
dynamic of the relationship since it is so important to the 
regime's hold on power. Given the lack of reciprocity on the part 
of Cuba, the U.S. is limited in how it can continue to try to 
change the tone of the relationship. He did add that the 
administration is exploring greater openness in telecommunications. 
Venner noted that  Canada had recently placed a military attachC) at 
the Canadian embassy in Havana. 
 
 
 
-------------------------------------------- 
 
Climate Change and Energy Security 
 
-------------------------------------------- 
 
 
 
¶12. (C) Carriere asked about the U.S. position on the Copenhagen 
climate change summit. The Deputy  Secretary cautioned, however, 
that  given the short time frame, there is no chance for a binding 
document to emerge. He said the U.S. wants to engage in a way that 
shows the world the U.S. is serious and  interested in moving the 
process forward in a way that is meaningful and real. The U.S. 
wants to focus  on concrete steps. The U.S. focus is in delivering 
on "our own domestic policy" and then seeking to have  that 
reflected in our international efforts. Carriere pledged that 
 
 
"Canada is with you in this." He  reiterated that Canada wants to 
help, but that the Prime Minister has been "clear that Canada will 
make  no commitments it cannot meet." The Deputy Secretary said the 
U.S. faces the same problem but is not  using domestic politics as 
an excuse for "trimming its ambitions." Carriere affirmed that 
Canada is  telling its petroleum industry that "environmental 
responsibility is equally important as energy  security." The 
Deputy Secretary underscored that attacking climate change and 
assuring energy security  should not be viewed a "trade off" but 
rather as complementary. Ambassador Jacobson commented  that on his 
recent travels to the oil sands that message was starting to get 
through to producers. Carriere  lamented, however, that we still 
have a long way to go since the "oil patch is still pretty 
negative" on the  idea of lowering its carbon footprint. The Deputy 
Secretary underscored that "win-win opportunities exist." 
 
 
 
-------------------------------- 
 
Palestine and the UNRWA 
 
-------------------------------- 
 
 
 
¶13. (C) The Deputy Secretary made a special request to Canada to 
expedite its contribution to the UN  Relief Works Agency, calling 
the fiscal situation for the agency "dire." Venner admitted that 
Canada has  lagged, but said the UNRWA contribution is caught up in 
a broader internal review of Canada's  multilateral aid 
effectiveness. He underscored, nonetheless, that Canada does not 
envision cutting its  level of support but is still deciding how to 
allocate it between core funding and humanitarian relief.  Carriere 
acknowledged, however, that Prime Minister Harper has "serious" 
concerns about UNRWA's  work, especially with regard to incitement 
and the content of school texts. The Deputy Secretary said  the 
U.S. shares those concerns, but that the alternative to UNRWA's 
failure is to hand Hamas a  major public relations opening. Venner 
said the fact that the U.S. has raised Canadian support for UNRWA 
at such a high level will be important in speeding a Canadian 
decision on its support. 
 
 
 
¶14. (U) The Deputy Secretary cleared this message. 
JACOBSON