VZCZCXRO1707
OO RUEHROV
DE RUEHRH #1178/01 2521637
ZNY SSSSS ZZH
O 091637Z SEP 09
FM AMEMBASSY RIYADH
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 1540
INFO RUEAIIA/CIA WASHDC IMMEDIATE
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHDC IMMEDIATE
RUEHXK/ARAB ISRAELI COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
RUEHIL/AMEMBASSY ISLAMABAD PRIORITY 4794
RUEHDH/AMCONSUL DHAHRAN PRIORITY 0217
RUEHKP/AMCONSUL KARACHI PRIORITY 0055
RHMFISS/HOMELAND SECURITY CENTER WASHINGTON DC PRIORITY 0285
RHEHNSC/NSC WASHDC PRIORITY

S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 05 RIYADH 001178 
 
SIPDIS 
 
NEA/ARP, NEA/IR, SCA; NSC FOR JOHN O. BRENNAN 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 09/09/2029 
TAGS: AF IR PGOV PK PREL PSOE PTER SA
SUBJECT: CHARGE'S SEPT 5 TOUR D'HORIZON WITH SAUDI INTERIOR 
MINISTER PRINCE NAYIF 
 
REF: A. JEDDAH 333 
     ¶B. RIYADH 1156 
 
RIYADH 00001178  001.2 OF 005 
 
 
Classified By: CDA Ambassador Richard W. Erdman 
for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d) 
 
SUMMARY AND COMMENT 
------------------- 
 
¶1. (S) Charge, accompanied by John Brennan, Assistant to the 
President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, and 
GRPO Chief, met for two hours September 5 with Saudi Second 
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Interior Prince Nayif 
bin Abdulaziz. For a senior official with a reputation for 
being sometimes prickly and difficult with U.S. officials, 
the meeting with Nayif was notable for the importance he said 
he attached to U.S.-Saudi friendship and cooperation and for 
his especially warm comments to the Charge, both of which may 
well be a part of a deliberate effort to refurbish and soften 
his image as the possibilities of his assuming the Crown 
Prince-ship loom. Nayif assessed the August 27 assassination 
attempt against Assistant Interior Minister Prince Mohammed 
bin Nayif as a continuation of past terrorist tactics, not 
part of a new strategy of targeted assassinations.  On Iran, 
Nayif said the Kingdom wanted good relations with Iran but 
saw its behavior as a continuing threat to the region; was 
not certain whether the apparent stability in Iran was real 
or the calm before the storm; alleged Iranian meddling in 
Yemen without offering hard evidence; and asked the U.S. to 
keep the Kingdom informed of new developments, given the 
threat Iran posed in the region. 
 
¶2. (C) On other issues, Nayif stressed the importance of 
U.S.-Saudi friendship and cooperation; confirmed the 
Kingdom,s policy of helping stabilize world energy markets; 
said Saudi Arabia was actively trying to help Pakistan both 
politically and economically; readily agreed -- in response 
to Charge,s underscoring that terrorist financing from the 
Gulf remained a serious concern in Washington -- that money 
indeed continued to move from the Gulf; and pledged continued 
efforts on this important issue.  Asked for his personal 
vision of the direction in which the Kingdom should move (in 
view of his new broader responsibilities as Second Deputy 
Prime Minister), the socially conservative Nayif emphasized 
the importance of education to economic transformation but 
notably made no reference to the need for expanded 
opportunity for women as part of this transformation.  When 
Charge noted that the Kingdom could not prosper in a future, 
knowledge-based world economy without the intellectual talent 
and contributions of all its citizens (i.e., women too), he 
took the point but not the bait, saying that in the Saudi 
people, "it would be necessary to take all things into 
consideration."  END SUMMARY. 
 
¶3. (C) During a two-hour plus meeting September 5 that began 
late in the evening and ended around 1:30 a.m., Charge 
thanked Prince Nayif for taking time from his exceptionally 
busy Ramadan schedule to receive Presidential Assistant 
Brennan and himself.  Charge said he had several issues on 
which he wished to have an exchange of views, but thought it 
most appropriate to ask Assistant to the President Brennan to 
first brief on the purpose of his visit and U.S. perspectives 
on the security challenges we face.  This portion of the 
meeting will be reported (septel). 
 
 
ATTACK ON PRINCE MOHAMMED NOT SEEN AS PART 
OF NEW STRATEGY OF TARGETED ASSASSINATIONS 
------------------------------------------ 
 
¶3. (C) Segueing from Nayif,s and Brennan,s discussion of 
the August 27 suicide bombing attempt on Prince Mohammed bin 
Nayif (Assistant Minister of the Interior), CDA asked if the 
attack represented a continuation of previous terrorist 
strategy or, as some have suggested, a new stage with more 
emphasis on targeted assassinations.  Nayif replied the 
incident was a continuation of existing terrorist 
methodology.  Assassination has always been within the 
terrorists, capability, SAG has expected this kind of attack 
in the past, and it anticipates more assassination attempts 
in the future.  In this regard, he noted that early in the 
year a plot to blow up a plane on which Prince Mohammed was 
 
RIYADH 00001178  002.2 OF 005 
 
 
to have traveled had been foiled.  The August 27 suicide 
bombing underscored the importance of following security 
measures (a reference to the Prince,s instruction to his 
security personnel not to search the bomber), being more 
careful, and being more prepared. 
 
 
IRAN: A DANGER IN THE REGION 
---------------------------- 
 
¶4. (S) Asked for his thoughts on recent developments in Iran, 
Nayif said in terms of Saudi-Iranian relations, they 
unfortunately had not seen any improvements from the Iranian 
side.  Iran continues to be a danger in the region, in 
Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Africa, Asia, and even Europe. 
The Iranians spent lots of money because they wanted to 
increase their influence and, spread their Shia sect and 
Persian ways in the Arabian Peninsula and elsewhere in the 
region.  The problem was not the Shia people -- there were 
200,000 Shia in the Kingdom, they were Saudis, and they were 
free, he claimed not altogether convincingly.  In contrast, 
there were more than 60,000 Sunnis within Iran, and not one 
of them was working in government. "If one were discovered, 
he would be killed." he asserted. 
 
 
WE WANT IMPROVED RELATIONS WITH IRAN, BUT IT 
HAS VIOLATED AGREEMENT, MEDDLED IN YEMEN 
-------------------------------------------- 
 
¶5. (C) Continuing, Nayif said, "We want there to be serious 
work from the Iranian side to fix the relationship between 
us."  In this regard, Iranian Foreign Minister Mottaki, 
during his March 15 visit to the Kingdom, had invited the 
King to visit Iran (Riyadh 427).  The King replied he would 
give Iran one year to prove its good intentions.  Only then 
would he consider a visit to Iran.  In the past, he recalled, 
King Abdullah and Prince Sultan had traveled to Iran and 
received overwhelming hospitality.  But during the past two 
years, the Saudi-Iran security agreement has been breached by 
Iran.  The SAG did not seek aggression or conflict, he 
emphasized, and if U.S. efforts to open a dialogue with Iran 
produced positive results, "that would be all to the good." 
But what we were seeing was Iranian ties with terrorists, 
especially in Yemen.  The latter had serious problems and 
needed support from the U.S. and other friendly countries. 
Charge agree on the importance of helping Yemen, noting Mr. 
Brennan would be traveling the next day to Yemen to discuss 
the situation with President Saleh. 
 
 
NAYIF: WE DON,T KNOW IF APPARENT STABILITY 
IN IRAN IS REAL OR CALM BEFORE THE STORM 
------------------------------------------ 
 
¶6. (C) Asked his view of the current internal power balance 
within the Iranian governing structure, Nayif responded that 
the recent conflict had reached the Supreme Leadership in 
Iran, but there was now some kind of stability.  It was not 
clear whether this stability would last or if the current 
period merely was the calm before the storm.  Asked for his 
views, Charge said the situation had stabilized compared to a 
month ago, but there were "cracks in the regime" that were 
not there before and that would continue to be potential weak 
points.  The way the regime handled the election and 
post-election protests had caused it to lose legitimacy among 
its people.  Once lost, legitimacy was hard to regain and so, 
despite the surface stability, this would remain another 
source of potential weakness.  At the same time, behind the 
scenes the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps seemed to be 
gaining influence.  All this said, there was a broad 
consensus in Iran on the nuclear power issues, regardless of 
who was in power.  We must not forget that important and 
serious reality.  In that context, the USG was offering to 
engage with Iran, but we were looking for serious results 
from such engagement and, as the President has indicated, 
would not wait forever. Nayif asked, "as friends of the 
U.S.", that the U.S. keep the SAG updated on any new 
developments because of the danger Iran posed, and Charge 
said we would do so. 
 
 
 
RIYADH 00001178  003.2 OF 005 
 
 
NAYIF CONTRASTS IRANIAN TROUBLE-MAKING ABROAD WITH 
KINGDOM,S RESPONSIBLE, STABILIZING POLICIES ON OIL 
--------------------------------------------- ----- 
 
¶7. (C) Nayif said that Iran needed to be reasonable and 
emphasize developments inside the country instead of causing 
problems outside the region.  Charge replied that Iran 
continued to have serious economic problems internally.  If 
Iran was not forthcoming, the USG was prepared to push hard 
for consensus on increased sanctions that would increase 
pressure on the regime.  In this regard, the increase in 
Saudi oil exports to China was helpful because they would 
reduce Chinese dependence on Iranian oil, possibly making 
China more receptive to tougher sanctions.  Charge noted he 
had recently mentioned this point to Petroleum Minister Naimi 
(Riyadh 1068), and has been pleased to see a week or so later 
press reports indicating that Saudi exports to China had 
surpassed those of Angola, making it the largest exporter of 
oil to China.  Nayif said that the Kingdom,s petroleum 
strategy was very responsible.  Charge praised Saudi 
Arabia,s important role in seeking to promote both oil 
production and price stability.  We shared a common interest 
in such stability, maintaining price levels that were high 
enough to encourage investment in the sector, but not so high 
as to kill demand.  Nayif responded that the SAG would seek 
anything that would serve the Kingdom's development.  Saudi 
Arabia did not look to create problems, but sought to 
cooperate with the U.S. 
 
 
SHARED INTEREST IN PAKISTAN, STEMMING FLOW 
OF TERRORIST FINANCING FROM GULF REGION TO AF/PAK 
--------------------------------------------- ---- 
 
¶8. (C) Charge observed that Saudi Arabia and the United 
States shared a common interest in preventing instability and 
radicalization in Pakistan, and noting the recent visit of 
Musharraf and the imminent visit of Nawaz Sharif to the 
Kingdom, said the Kingdom had an especially important role to 
play there.  As the President has made clear, Pakistan was 
vital to our national interest and we were therefore 
providing substantial assistance over a five-year period and, 
encouraging Pakistan,s political leadership to work together 
for the good of the country.  Nayif agreed Pakistan was going 
through a difficult period and needed the help of countries 
like the United States, which could play an important role in 
Pakistan's stability.  Saudi Arabia itself would not hesitate 
to help since Saudi Arabia had enjoyed friendly relations 
with Pakistan since its independence, appreciated the efforts 
of the Pakistani people, and hoped the country's leadership 
would find it within itself to work together for stability. 
SAG sought stability and would not side with any of the 
parties.  Unfortunately, Al Qaeda would not let them be. 
 
TERRORIST FINANCING FROM GULF 
REMAINS A SERIOUS CONCERN FOR WASHINGTON 
---------------------------------------- 
 
¶9. (C) Seizing this opening, Charge agreed that al-Qaeda was 
a serious problem in the Afghanistan-Pakistan theater.  In 
this regard, Prince Nayif should know that terrorist 
financing in the Gulf region to the Taliban and al-Qaeda 
remained a very serious concern in Washington and that we 
needed to think together how we could strengthen our efforts 
to stop this flow of money from the Gulf region.  Nayif 
readily agreed that money was still moving from the Gulf to 
fund terrorist activity, that this was an important issue, 
and that Saudi Arabia would make a great effort in this 
field. 
 
 
NAYIF,S VISION FOR KINGDOM: MUCH TALK ABOUT 
EDUCATION AND SCIENCE, BUT NO MENTION OF WOMEN 
--------------------------------------------- - 
 
¶10. (C) Alluding to Nayif's elevation to Second Deputy Prime 
Minister in March, Charge said that we were used to dealing 
with him as Minister of Interior, but now he had broader 
responsibilities.  Since "where you stand is often a matter 
of where you sit." Charge observed, he wondered if the 
Prince,s views had changed with the assumption of his new 
responsibilities.  What was his vision for the future, the 
 
RIYADH 00001178  004.2 OF 005 
 
 
direction the Kingdom should move, in terms of the economy, 
society, and the Kingdom,s external role?  Nayif replied 
that in Arabic there was also a saying, "The more 
responsibility you show, the more responsibility comes." "My 
vision was with me before my new assignment," Nayif 
maintained.  Saudis must work together more as a nation in 
the interests of the Kingdom and its people, developing their 
scientific and technological capabilities to build the 
economy and promote progress.  The new King Abdulaziz 
University of Science and Technology (KAUST) was an example 
of how much the Kingdom wants to advance and modernize and 
"how much we have already achieved."  Nayif recalled 
celebrating the graduation of six students from high school 
as governor of Riyadh in the 1950s.  Today the Kingdom has 20 
universities, hundreds of institutes, and thousands of 
citizens with Ph.D.s: "We've become a people with a high 
level of culture.  We want to be a strong country internally, 
respected in the international community, and want to 
cooperate with the U.S." 
 
 
NAYIF: EDUCATION ESSENTIAL TO ECONOMIC TRANSFORMATION 
--------------------------------------------- -------- 
 
¶11. (C) Charge observed that a principal challenge for a 
Saudi leader, in his view, would have to be to prepare the 
country for the time when its wealth and economy were not 
based on what was underground - oil - but on human capital. 
There were different estimates on how long oil reserves would 
last, some said 50 years, others said 75 or 100 years. 
Whatever figure one used, it meant the Kingdom had only three 
of four generations in which to effect an enormous 
transition.  Nayif agreed this was the challenge the Kingdom 
faced, recalling that when King Abdulaziz established the 
Kingdom, he had emphasized two things:  security and 
education.  Understanding that it could not just depend on 
oil, the SAG was building the nation's scientific and 
technological capabilities and training a future generation 
that could take responsibility.  Young Saudis had won gold 
and silver medals in international competitions for 
inventions, and in the future the KSA would develop solar 
energy. 
 
 
CDA: YOU NEED INTELLECTUAL TALENT AND CONTRIBUTIONS 
OF ALL YOUR CITIZENS, IF YOU ARE TO BE COMPETITIVE 
--------------------------------------------- ------ 
 
¶12. (C) Reacting to any specific mention of women in Nayif's 
vision for the future, Charge pointedly said that in order to 
be competitive in the knowledge-based world economy of the 
last 21st century, no nation could prosper without the 
intellectual contributions and talent of all its citizens. 
Alluding to expanded opportunity for women, Charge ventured 
this was perhaps the real challenge the Kingdom faced as it 
looked to the future, since it touched on sensitive social 
issues.  Clearly taking the point, the ever cautious and 
conservative Nayif did not take the bait, commenting only 
that to assist the Saudi people, it would be necessary to 
take all things into consideration.   Quoting the Quran's 
advice to "Seek knowledge even unto China," Nayif noted that 
the country has sent more than 16,000 students for education 
to the United States, in addition to other countries. 
(Comment: An Education Ministry official has just told us the 
actual figure is over 22,000.)  "We would prefer you send 
your students to the U.S., not China," Charge responded, 
half-jokingly.  Nayif replied that the Kingdom had no problem 
with that as long as the U.S. assisted Saudi students: "We 
hope to build trust in this aspect and we expect students in 
the U.S. to respect U.S. laws."  Charge remarked that we now 
had U.S. students in Saudi Arabia at KAUST, so it was 
becoming something of a two-way street.  Nayif expressed the 
hope that KAUST would become a world center of knowledge and 
science. 
 
 
NAYIF AFFIRMS IMPORTANCE OF U.S.-SAUDI COOPERATION 
--------------------------------------------- ----- 
 
¶13. (S) In closing, Charge thanked Nayif for having shared 
his time so generously, noted he would be leaving the Kingdom 
very shortly, and expressed gratitude for the warm welcome he 
 
RIYADH 00001178  005.2 OF 005 
 
 
had been given during his brief stay, including and 
especially by Prince Nayif.  It had been a privilege to serve 
in the Kingdom, Charge continued, and he wanted him (Nayif) 
to know that whether in the Kingdom or elsewhere, whether in 
or out of government, he would remain a strong supporter of 
U.S.-Saudi friendship, cooperation, and strategic 
partnership. Nayif said the appointment of an ambassador 
reflected the respect of one country for another and he 
thanked Washington for sending Charge to serve in the Kingdom 
(during this interim period).  It was "proof" of the 
importance the President placed on ties between our two 
countries.  "A loyal friend serves both his own country and 
benefits the host nation," he added, echoing a sentiment 
often expressed by King Abdullah.  "The SAG hoped to continue 
the open channels and cooperation between the security 
organizations of our nations.  We might have the same enemy 
in different places, but we will not allow anyone to hurt 
relations between Saudi Arabia and the U.S."  At the end of 
the meeting, which concluded at 1:30 a.m., Nayif, who has a 
reputation for being a bit prickly with Americans, shook 
Charge,s hand for at least thirty seconds and said:  "I 
really hate to see you go." 
 
¶14. (U) This message was drafted by Amconsul Jeddah. 
ERDMAN