O 010059Z JUL 09
FM AMEMBASSY BEIJING
TO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 4940
INFO CHINA POSTS COLLECTIVE
NSC WASHDC
AIT TAIPEI 7332
CIA WASHINGTON DC
SECDEF WASHINGTON DC
JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC
DIA WASHINGTON DC
CDR USPACOM HONOLULU HI

S E C R E T BEIJING 001823 
 
 
DEPARTMENT FOR EAP, ISN. JOINT STAFF FOR J5 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/23/2034 
TAGS: PREL PARM MOPS CH TW
SUBJECT: 2009 U.S.-CHINA DEFENSE CONSULTATIVE TALKS: ASIA 
PACIFIC SECURITY AND NORTH KOREA 
 
Classified By: Classified by ADCM William Weinstein.  Reasons 1.4 (b) a 
nd (d). 
 
Summary 
------- 
 
¶1. (S)  China appreciates and shares the concerns of the 
United States, Japan and South Korea regarding the North 
Korean nuclear test, Deputy Chief of the People's Liberation 
Army (PLA) General Staff Lieutenant General Ma Xiaotian told 
Under Secretary of Defense for Policy (USDP) Michele Flournoy 
during the third session of the Defense Consultative Talks 
(DCT) June 24, 2009.  China is ready to work with the United 
States and the international community to resolve the issue, 
LTG Ma affirmed.  PLA Intelligence Department Director Major 
General Yang Hui stated that China would "uphold the goal of 
denuclearization and oppose proliferation."  MG Yang assessed 
that North Korea's recent provocative behavior is primarily a 
reflection of its security concerns, but conceded that 
internal security and succession questions have also played a 
role.  LTG Ma allowed that China respects traditional U.S. 
interests in the Asia-Pacific region but warned against the 
expansion of U.S. alliances and missile defense systems.  LTG 
Ma also pushed the United States to be "more open" and to 
invite PLA observers to attend joint military exercises.  End 
Summary. 
 
PLA Perspectives on North Korea's Provocative Behavior 
--------------------------------------------- --------- 
 
¶3. (S)  China appreciates and shares the concerns of the 
United States, Japan and South Korea regarding North Korea's 
nuclear test, LTG Ma told USDP.  LTG Ma maintained that 
China's opposition to the test is "clear-cut and consistent," 
and he further urged both sides to "address the issue 
responsibly and take non-confrontational measures."  China is 
ready to work with the United States and the international 
community to resolve the issue, LTG Ma concluded. 
 
¶4. (S)  PLA Intelligence Department Director MG Yang Hui told 
the delegation that China's position is to "uphold the goal 
of denuclearization, oppose proliferation and resolve the 
issue using peaceful, diplomatic and political means." 
China's proximity to North Korea made the issue one of "great 
concern," MG Yang observed, and reminded the U.S. delegation 
that China had "paid a heavy price" for the three wars it had 
fought on the Korean Peninsula (Note: A war in 1592 during 
the Ming Dynasty, the 1894-95 Sino-Japanese War, and the 1950 
Korean War).  China and the United States both have vital 
interests in the Peninsula, MG Yang noted.  China voted in 
favor of UN Security Council Resolution 1874 in order to 
"pressure North Korea to change course," he claimed.  MG Yang 
mentioned that he and DNI Mission Manager for North Korea, 
Ambassador Joseph DeTrani, agreed in a recent meeting that 
the United States and China had broad room for cooperation on 
the North Korea issue.  The most important objective was to 
"prevent tensions from escalating," MG Yang maintained, 
adding that only when the situation had "returned to normal 
would we have any hope."  MG Yang referred approvingly to 
former National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft's article 
urging China and the United States to "join hands" to bring 
North Korea back to the negotiating table.  On matters of 
intelligence, said MG Yang, China and the United States are 
already conducting "close cooperation," citing as an example 
a recent PLA Intelligence Department visit to exchange 
information with the CIA.  MG Yang concluded that "whenever 
there is crisis there is opportunity," and urged all 
concerned parties to remain calm and restrained in order to 
prevent tensions from rising and strengthen cooperation. 
 
¶5. (S)  When USDP asked him to assess North Korea's 
motivations for its provocative behavior, MG Yang maintained 
that "survival had always been the number one priority" of 
the North Korean regime.  North Korea is in an "inferior 
position" to South Korea based on all measurements of 
national strength, he alleged.  China has frequently tried to 
persuade North Korea to give up its weapons programs and 
pursue economic growth by emphasizing that "a good economy 
and a well-fed people are the real atom bomb," MG Yang 
insisted.  North Korea, however, rejected that argument on 
the basis that it applied only to large countries such as 
China.  Moreover, MG Yang assessed that after witnessing the 
U.S. invasion of Iraq, North Korea concluded it could not 
give up its nuclear weapons program. 
 
¶6. (S)  Domestic considerations also played a role in 
Pyongyang's decision to conduct a second nuclear test, MG 
Yang continued.  North Korea had seen ten years of economic 
stagnation with only one percent growth in the economy per 
year, and the "satellite launch" and nuclear test were 
designed to give "coherence and stability" to the country. 
Kim Jong-il's health problems last year, MG Yang admitted, 
also added urgency to the question of succession.  He noted 
that there has been a recent reshuffling of high level 
officials in North Korea and that the National Defense 
Commission (NDC) has added new members. 
 
¶7. (S)  Given that North Korea has stated its intention to 
take retaliatory measures following the adoption of the UN 
resolution, the United States and China must work together to 
bring the situation back to normal and "not let it get out of 
control," MG Yang urged.  North Korea must be made to feel 
that abandoning its nuclear program best serves its 
interests.  MG Yang claimed that as a result of China's 
statements in support of Resolution 1874, North Korea has 
begun to realize that it would not get what it wanted by 
developing its nuclear program.  There was "still opportunity 
and hope," MG Yang assessed, and that was why China insisted 
on the "peaceful and diplomatic means of resolution." 
 
¶8. (S)  MG Qian Lihua, Director, Ministry of National Defense 
Foreign Affairs Office, asked for clarification on possible 
unilateral actions the U.S. might take if international 
efforts to persuade North Korea to change its behavior were 
unsuccessful.  He asked whether such measures might include 
U.S. cooperation with South Korea or Japan, and involve 
diplomatic, political or economic measures.  He wondered if 
such measures might even involve U.S. bilateral engagement 
with the DPRK.  USDP responded that the international 
community needs to employ both incentives and disincentives 
to change North Korea's calculus, but if these are 
unsuccessful the U.S. is concerned that other countries in 
the region might conclude that they have no other choice but 
to take unilateral defense measures.  She stressed this was 
an outcome the U.S. hopes to avoid, but it underscores the 
importance of offering North Korea a clear alternative while 
responsibly applying pressure. 
 
U.S. Perspective: North Korea at a Crossroads 
--------------------------------------------- 
 
¶9. (S)  If North Korea succeeds in increasing its nuclear and 
missile capabilities, there will be serious consequences for 
the security of both China and the United States, USDP 
advised LTG Ma.  Either North Korea would take irreversible 
steps to denuclearize, or all concerned would find themselves 
going down a road no one wants to travel, she warned. 
Further improvements in North Korea's nuclear and missile 
capabilities would cause neighboring countries to take 
necessary steps to protect their security, USDP cautioned, 
including missile defense, improving alliances and enhancing 
offensive capabilities. 
 
¶10. (S)  Michael Schiffer, Deputy Assistant Secretary of 
Defense (DASD) for East Asia further elaborated on this 
point, noting that the North Korea situation is "at an 
inflection point" and that if the five parties fail to 
persuade North Korea to change course, the United States will 
have no choice other than to take serious countermeasures. 
The United States intends to work responsibly within the 
framework of the UN Security Council resolution, DASD 
Schiffer emphasized, but added that Pyongyang's actions must 
have consequences.  The United States has made clear that the 
door is open to bilateral and multilateral negotiations 
leading to normalization of relations, energy and economic 
assistance, and a peaceful regime provided North Korea 
decides to denuclearize, DASD Schiffer noted.  However, the 
United States would not "buy the same horse twice."  If North 
Korea rejects engagement with the international community, he 
warned, the United States and others might be forced to take 
additional measures to protect their security.  The United 
States understands China's concern about instability in North 
Korea if harsh measures were to be adopted, DASD Schiffer 
allowed.  However, he warned, inaction would produce even 
greater instability. 
 
Asia-Pacific Security Issues 
---------------------------- 
 
¶11. (C)  China and the United States should broaden 
cooperation in the Asia Pacific region, LTG Ma urged.  The 
two countries should not view one another as competitors and 
should commit to security in the region, he added.  China 
"recognized and respected" U.S. traditional interests and 
relationships in the region, LTG Ma allowed, but opposed the 
expansion of existing military alliances.  Such expansion 
demonstrated a "cold war mentality" and might be targeted at 
other countries, LTG Ma claimed.  China opposes the creation 
of an "Asian NATO" or "ideological alliances."  Such 
alliances would go against the shared interests of the United 
States and China and would negatively affect stability in the 
region, LTG Ma alleged.  China also opposes the expansion of 
missile defense in Asia, and was concerned that some Asian 
countries would become "semi-allies" of the United States by 
virtue of U.S. technological transfers to them.  LTG Ma held 
up China's "active role" in ASEAN Plus Three, the ASEAN 
Regional Forum (ARF), the Shangri-La Dialogue and the 
Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) as examples of 
China's commitment to regional cooperation.  In response, 
USDP clarified that the United States was not seeking a 
NATO-like alliance in Asia and welcomed China's participation 
in regional fora.  David Shear, EAP Director for China and 
Mongolia Affairs also noted that the United States does not 
seek to encircle China, but wants to engage it bilaterally. 
The Strategic and Economic Dialogue underscores our intent to 
engage China, Director Shear continued, further urging the 
PLA to send a representative to the session in July. 
 
¶12. (C)  The United States should "be more open and 
transparent" in Southeast Asia and should invite PLA 
observers to attend joint military exercises in the region, 
advised MG Qian.  He complained that China had asked to 
observe U.S. joint military exercises on numerous occasions 
but had not received a response.   LTG Ma noted that although 
China and the Philippines had some political disagreements 
earlier in 2009, China still responded positively to an 
invitation to attend a joint U.S.-Philippine humanitarian 
response exercise.  LTG Ma alleged that the Defense 
Department "rarely" invited the PLA to observe joint military 
exercises, and when invited, the PLA was only allowed to 
observe "a small part."  The PLA, by contrast, has been open 
in this regard and has frequently invited U.S. officials to 
observe brigade-level live fire exercises, LTG Ma claimed. 
China seeks "reciprocity" on military exercises, he added and 
warned that in the future China would only invite countries 
to observe its military exercises whose exercises China has 
observed. 
 
¶13. (C)  In response, Brigadier General William Uhle, USPACOM 
Deputy J5 explained that the U.S. conducted many combined 
exercises with other countries in the region and that it was 
not always up to the United States who to invite.  Brig Gen 
Uhle further noted that U.S. exercises tend to focus on 
command and control and planning, in contrast to the PLA's 
firepower demonstrations, and that the U.S. would appreciate 
greater reciprocity in terms of the type of exercise each was 
invited to observe.  USDP suggested that both sides look at 
their upcoming calendar of exercises and identify 
opportunities for the other to observe or participate. 
 
¶14. (C)  Senior Colonel Wang Kebin, Deputy Director for 
Operations in the PLA General Staff Department described PRC 
counter piracy operations as aimed at protecting PRC and 
international organization ships in accordance with UN 
resolutions.  He described the positive cooperation between 
the PLA Navy and their U.S. counterparts, and pointed in 
particular to intelligence exchanges and "experience sharing" 
as positive developments.  SrCOl Wang referenced China's 
proposal to divide counter piracy operations into zones of 
responsibility, and mentioned that China awaits other 
countries' responses to that proposal.  USDP affirmed that 
the two countries' counter piracy engagement was exactly the 
type of operational cooperation in pursuit of common 
interests that both sides should seek to expand. 
 
¶15. (U)  U.S. Participants: 
 
Michele Flournoy, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy (USDP) 
Dan Piccuta, Charge d'Affaires 
Michael Schiffer, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense 
(DASD) for East Asia 
David Shear, EAP/CM, Department of State 
Brig Gen Joseph Callahan, Deputy Director for 
Politico-Military Affairs - Asia, Joint Staff J5 
Brig Gen William Uhle, USPACOM Deputy J5 
RDML Bradley Gerhrke, U.S. Defense Attache in Beijing 
John Plumb, OSD Principal Director for Nuclear and Missile 
Defense Policy 
Craig Mullaney, OSD Principal Director for Central Asia 
Robert Gromoll Acting Director for Regional Affairs ISN, 
Department of State 
 
¶16. (U)  PRC Participants 
 
Lieutenant General Ma Xiaotian, Deputy Chief of the PLA 
General Staff 
Major General Qian Lihua, Director, Ministry of National 
Defense Foreign Affairs Office (MND/FAO) 
Major General Yang Hui, Director, Intelligence Department, 
PLA General Staff Department 
Rear Admiral Yi Changzhi, Deputy Chief of Staff, PLA Navy 
Major General Zhu Chenghu, Director, Department of 
International Strategic Studies, PLA National Defense 
University (NDU) 
Senior Captain Guan Youfei, Deputy Director, MND/FAO 
Senior Colonel Wang Kebin, Deputy Director, Operations 
Department, PLA General Staff Department 
Major General Zhao Ning, PRC Defense Attache in Washington 
Senior Captain Li Ji, Director, North American and Oceania 
Bureau, MND/FAO 
Councilor Ma Zhanwu, North American and Oceania Affairs, MFA 
Lieutenant Colonel Chu Weiwei, Interpreter, MND/FAO 
 
¶17. (U)  USDP has cleared this cable. 
 
 
GOLDBERG