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C O N F I D E N T I A L GUANGZHOU 000061 
 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: X-1 Human 
TAGS: KIRF PHUM SOCI GOV CH
SUBJECT: An Evening with Guangzhou's Bishop Gan: Whither Religious 
Freedom, Whither China's Leaders 
 
(U) Classified by Consul General Robert Goldberg for reasons 1.4 (b) 
and (d). 
 
¶1. (C) Summary.  A wry, at times bemused, Bishop Joseph Gan (Gan 
Junqiu) told the U.S. and French Consuls General over dinner February 
3 that he did not see any possibility for China-Vatican relations 
over the next 4-5 years.  The issue, the Bishop said, was not whether 
the Vatican "de-recognized" Taiwan or whether it allowed China to 
select and ordain bishops without the Vatican's designation and 
approval; it was simply a question of freedom of religion.  As long 
as the Chinese government viewed non-state- controlled religions as 
an alternative power base, the Vatican would have no choice but to 
forego far-reaching rapprochement and instead to seek incremental 
improvements in the lot of people of faith.  The conversation with 
the Bishop ranged widely over the Pope's 2007 letter to the Chinese 
people, a recent Bishop's meeting in Beijing, the current state of 
official-underground Catholic relations, the growth in the number of 
churches, political change in Guangdong, and the legacy of Chinese 
leaders from Chiang Kai-shek to Hu Jintao.  End summary. 
 
It's All About Freedom of Religion 
---------------------------------- 
 
¶2.  (C) Over a leisurely dinner - and well aware that the Chinese 
authorities likely were not pleased that he was once again meeting 
with the U.S. and French Consuls General - Bishop Joseph Gan started 
the conversation off by addressing what he thought would be of most 
interest to the two CGs: the future of Sino-Vatican relations.  On 
that issue, the Bishop was "not optimistic."  The issues of 
Taiwan-Vatican relations and the recognition and ordination of 
Bishops were relatively easy ones to work out: in fact, both could be 
resolved in a day (a bit of an understatement, he subsequently 
observed).  But religious freedom was a far more contentious, indeed 
potentially irreconcilable matter.  Simply put, the Church was a 
potential center of authority for challenging the overall supremacy 
of the Party.  The Bishop noted that he had always been very clear in 
his support of the Party; in fact that was one of the things that 
made it easy for the Chinese to recognize him as Bishop of Guangzhou 
after the Vatican had designated him (though the ordination ceremony 
was held up for a period of time).  However, the ruling authorities 
either failed to understand the distinction between Caesar and God 
(which had been spelled out in the Pope's 2007 letter to the Chinese 
people) or they recognized that faith, even if it were personal and 
non-political, would inevitably lead people to question the wisdom of 
Party decisions which seemed based on the good of the Party rather 
than the good of the people. 
 
¶3.  (C) Turning to the Pope's letter, the Bishop said that clearly 
there were contradictions and certain things in it that would not be 
acceptable to the government, particularly on issues of apostolic 
succession.  But if read carefully, there was room for discussion. 
It was a good "faith" effort by the Pope to start a dialogue, not to 
dictate the outcome of a discussion.   The Chinese government had not 
yet responded to the letter and the Bishop doubted that any formal 
response would be forthcoming.  But the letter did have the effect of 
giving underground Catholic churches a mandate to work with the 
authorities (which the Bishop doubted they would do since the 
government would want to close them down) and allowed underground 
Catholic believers to attend the official Catholic church and receive 
communion and partake of fellowship there.  As for the underground 
Church-official Church relationship, Bishop Gan noted that the links 
had been strong and continuous over the past two decades.  He himself 
had been very close to priests in the underground Church in Wuhan 
when he was new to the ministry and underground Church leaders felt 
free to call on him when in need.  His current assistant, Father John 
Peng (Peng Zengqin), who recently returned about three years of 
seminary training in Manila, helps Bishop Gan coordinate informal 
meetings with the underground church as well as weekly meetings with 
foreign priests. 
 
The December Meeting in Beijing 
------------------------------- 
 
¶4.  (C) The convocation of Chinese bishops in Beijing in December had 
been hastily called by the State Administration of Religious Affairs 
(SARA), according to the Bishop.  He was already in Beijing on 
business and was set to leave the following day when a SARA official 
turned up to inform him of the meeting and to hand him a new plane 
ticket.  And, oh by the way, the official said, please wear your 
bishop's robes to the meeting.  Bishop Gan demurred, noting that his 
formal clothing was in Guangzhou and he would simply come in his 
clerical collar.  "What," he asked rhetorically, "do they think we 
are?  Clowns in a circus?"  As for the meeting itself, it was 
memorable only for the lecturing and at times hectoring tone taken by 
the officials and for the decision of the part of most (but not all) 
of the Bishops to return and continue their ministries without 
reference to the warnings and importunings.   Bishop Gan noted that 
he had discussed the Beijing meeting only with a few of his trusted 
advisors (not all 70 of the priests in Guangzhou who serve 380 plus 
parishes) as he didn't want many of them to feel obligated to report 
on him for his somewhat wayward attitude.  (Note: the Bishop said 
that he knew that there were a couple of people who worked in his 
Guangzhou office who reported to the local SARA on church activities 
and he didn't mind that, except when it got into matters of faith. 
End note.) 
 
The Protestant Church Has It Harder Than We Do/ 
Buddhists Are Different From You and Me 
------------------------------------------ 
 
¶5.  (C) Tough as it is at times for the Catholic Church, official or 
underground, the Bishop said that it's double or triple that amount 
of aggravation for many of the Protestant churches.  Many local 
authorities do not understand Protestant doctrine or certain aspects 
of evangelical fervor and missionary work; they also lack a single 
power center, like the Vatican, to which they can either appeal 
(privately) or blame (publicly).  So he is not surprised by the 
occasional harsh treatment of Protestant ministers and their flock; 
in fact, the story here, he said, is that there are actually some 
local officials who seek to work with Christians on social issues 
(care for the aged, for example) that government is unable to 
address. 
 
¶6.  (C) The Bishop did not linger long on Buddhists or the Dalai 
Lama; he criticized, in fairly standard terms, the Dalai Lama's 
inability or unwillingness to address the concerns of the central 
government and said time was running out for him to be an effective 
agent of reconciliation.  As for Serf Liberation Day, he understood 
it was a poke in the eye of many Tibetans, but noted somewhat 
disingenuously, that it was a political matter and what could he, as 
a religious leader, say about that.  He noted that he didn't spend 
much time with Buddhist monks these days, adding with a smile that as 
a dedicated carnivore, it's difficult to break bread with them over a 
meal. 
 
And What About Political Leaders? 
------------------------------------------ 
 
¶7.  (C) The Bishop seemed particularly amused by the CGs' comments 
about politics in south China, especially the role being played by 
Party Secretary Wang Yang.  Had he met Wang?  Only to say hello, he 
said.  Was he interested in meeting at length with Wang?  Not really 
was the response.  Wang's views on religion were likely to be like 
those of any other senior Chinese leader and whether Wang would make 
any difference in the economic well being of Guangdong remained to be 
seen.  Wang's policies were designed to afford him a national role in 
the future; Guangdong, the Bishop said, was a platform from which to 
gain central government position.  As for Huang Huahua, the Bishop 
added cryptically and without elaboration, at least the Governor was 
"honest" in everything he did. Note: We're not exactly sure what the 
Bishop meant by Huang's "honesty" other than to observe that 
allegations about whether Huang is honest are an occasional topic of 
internet conversations about political and economic culture in 
Guangdong.  End note. 
 
¶8.  (C) Finally, what positive legacy do politicians in China leave 
behind?  According to the Bishop, there is a saying in China today 
that sums up the legacies of leaders from Chiang Kaishek to Jiang 
Zemin: Chiang's legacy was Taiwan independence, Mao Zedong's was 
Tibetan independence, Deng's was June 4th and Jiang Zemin's was 
Falungong.  Surely Hu Jintao should be able to improve on that.  But 
one thing Hu Jintao and his successors could not do or would not do 
is to rewrite and reevaluate those legacies.  Too many people, 
currently embedded in government at senior levels, have a vested 
interest in not revisiting the past lest their own emergence as power 
brokers come to be questioned as a result of the policies they have 
upheld.  Accountability, the Bishop said at the end of the meal, was 
not coming in this world. 
 
One Last Story 
-------------- 
 
¶9.  (C) The Bishop could not resist one last story on his way out the 
door and that related to the renovation of the Catholic Church on 
Shamian Island near the consulate.  A group of Consuls Generals in 
2001 had organized a trip around Guangzhou to visit leaders of the 
five major religions.  At the Catholic Church, they came upon a 
building of great beauty but in need of considerable repair and asked 
the priest whether he would be interested in receiving money raised 
from abroad.  Bishop Gan says he was there and told us that the 
priest said he would; the CGs supposedly were about to set a 
fund-raising effort in motion.  A few days after the visit to the 
Church, the Canadian CG paid a farewell call on the Mayor of 
Guangzhou and told him about the role that the Consuls General hoped 
to play on behalf of the Church.  Within two-three weeks, the 
Catholic priest had been offered nearly unlimited assistance from the 
Guangzhou government for renovation and repairs; he could keep 
whatever money was not spent. It was also suggested that perhaps he 
didn't need assistance from abroad after all.  Noting that the U.S. 
Consul General was leaving in the next half year, the Bishop said 
that perhaps the CG would like to visit the Catholic Church on Yide 
Road and report its condition to Mayor Zhang Guangning at the time of 
his departure. That was as good an invitation to be of assistance if 
we ever heard one. 
 
GOLDBERG