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C O N F I D E N T I A L STATE 106151 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 09/29/2018 
TAGS: PREL ASEC PHUM KDEM PMAR PK AF UZ
SUBJECT: BOUCHER AND NOROV: PRAGMATIC STEPS FORWARD 
 
Classified By: Assistant Secretary Boucher for reasons 1.4(b) and (d). 
 
¶1. (C) SUMMARY: Assistant Secretary for South and Central 
Asia, Richard Boucher, and Uzbekistan's Foreign Minister, 
Vladimir Norov, met September 27 on the margins of the UN 
General Assembly and discussed: overland supply to 
Afghanistan, human rights, religious freedom, the Red Cross, 
counter narcotics, Uzbekistan's 6 3 proposal for talks on 
Afghanistan, and regional water issues.  Boucher called for 
"steps forward" on human rights and religious freedom.  Norov 
agreed but urged a "pragmatic approach."  Of note, Norov 
urged the United States to stay out of Central Asian regional 
water issues as the Uzbeks preferred bilateral solutions. 
Boucher gently rebuffed Norov's call for a 6 3 arrangement on 
Afghanistan; a proposal to discuss the future of Afghanistan 
with neighboring states but not the Afghan government itself. 
 END SUMMARY. 
 
¶2. (U) Participants 
 
Foreign Minister Vladimir Norov 
Ambassador to the United States Abdulaziz Kamilov 
Uzbek Embassy First Secretary Eldor Aripov 
Uzbek UN Mission Second Secretary Ildar Shigabutdinov 
 
Assistant Secretary Richard Boucher 
SCA Deputy Assistant Secretary George Krol 
SCA/CEN Notetaker John Gorkowski 
 
¶3. (C) Boucher raised the issue of shipments of supplies into 
Afghanistan and asked Norov for a readout of his meeting with 
NATO Secretary General's Special Representative for South 
Caucasus and Central Asia, Bob Simmons, in Brussels.  Norov 
noted that President Karimov had already issued a statement 
in support of NATO's efforts to transit material through 
Uzbekistan and underscored that this was in Uzbekistan's 
national interest since it helped secure Afghanistan.  Norov 
shared that the Uzbeks had some concerns about the current 
transit proposal that could be resolved given a "pragmatic" 
approach.  The Europeans had discussed the same issue with 
Central Asian leaders at the EU-Central Asian ministerial 
conference on security in Paris September 18.  Norov went on 
to describe a proposal Karimov made in Baku to develop a new 
rail transportation corridor to/from Europe that could 
alleviate NATO's burden.  It would send Uzbek cargoes by rail 
to Turkmenbashi and then by ferry to Baku from where material 
would rail through Georgia, Turkey and then tunnel under the 
Bosporus to Europe. 
 
¶4. (C) Norov called for pragmatism on human rights.  He 
shared that Uzbekistan had reduced death sentences from 39 to 
2 in the recent past, a better record than Kyrgyzstan in 
which 200 on death row have now been sentenced to life in 
prison.  After explaining Uzbek commitment to Habeas Corpus 
and prevention of trafficking in persons, Norov described a 
September 12 Executive Order to observe International Labor 
Organization conventions on child labor.  In response to a 
question from Boucher, Norov noted the new Uzbek law allowing 
Bar Association exchanges with the United States.  Likewise 
he said that prison amnesties would be granted where inmates 
had not violated prison regulations.  When Boucher asked for 
the release of political prisoners, Norov replied, "I don't 
know what you mean by political prisoners; we don't have 
any."  Here and 
elsewhere Norov asked that Uzbekistan's progress be measured 
relative to other nations in the region as things had to 
improve "one step at a time."  He asked for a return to the 
2002 Declaration of Strategic Partnership based on a 
"balanced approach," that avoided a "double 
standard" of interference in domestic affairs. 
 
¶5. (C) On religious freedom, Norov answered Boucher's inquiry 
about progress on the exchange of letters with Ambassador 
Hanford, Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious 
Freedom.  Norov described a "pragmatic" approach in close 
consultation with Ambassador Norland in Tashkent.  "One case 
at a time," explained Norov.  He went on to note that in 
contrast to Kyrgyzstan, his country required only 100 
registrants to constitute a church and in some cases even 
fewer than that.  Boucher stressed that the letter gave us a 
positive agenda on which we had to see progress in order to 
avoid an unwanted slide back to sanctions. 
 
¶6. (C) There was "no problem" with the Red Cross prison 
visits according to Norov.  He reported that he was waiting 
on a report from the International Committee of the Red Cross 
after having worked through some issues regarding their 
approach.  The Red Cross should not question only "particular 
groups" of prisoners.  He also asked, "Are they gathering 
data for themselves or to help us improve conditions in our 
prisons?"  He underscored that "regularization of the 
judicial system" required a great deal of thought, financing, 
legislation and time. 
 
¶7. (C) Turning to counter narcotics, Norov lamented that this 
year 54% more heroin had entered Uzbekistan than in the 
previous year.  Law enforcement had even found Tajik-produced 
heroin.  Boucher drew a link between terrorism and narcotics 
by reminding that both thrived on insecurity.  He explained 
how the Taliban had abandoned their take-and-hold strategy 
for one centered on generating a feeling of insecurity 
through violent attacks.  In response, the United States was 
increasing security by helping extend the Afghan government's 
reach into the provinces and blanketing the country with 
police.  When Boucher asked how we might deepen counter 
narcotics cooperation Norov asked that we station U.S. Drug 
Enforcement Agents at the U.S. Embassy in Tashkent. 
 
¶8. (C) As Norov saw it, French Foreign Minister Kouchner had 
showed common cause with Uzbekistan's 6 3 proposal at the 
September 18 Paris meeting between EU and Central Asian 
foreign ministers by calling for an informal meeting of 
states neighboring Afghanistan this November.  However, 
Uzbekistan rejected President Rahmon's call for Shanghai 
Cooperation Organization involvement and was weary of Russian 
efforts to get the Collective Security Treaty states 
involved.  Norov reminded Boucher that our efforts to speak 
to the opposition in Iraq had led to our current success 
there and that Afghan Foreign Minister Spanta had called for 
something similar with the Taliban.  Boucher assured Norov 
that we shared Uzbek concerns about "spill over" from 
Afghanistan.  Although we agreed with the concept underlying 
the 6 3 proposal we rejected the mechanism because any 
discussion on Afghanistan must include and be centered on the 
Afghan government.  "What happens on reconciliation must be 
centered on the Afghan government so that all accept the new 
constitution."  Boucher agreed the UN Special Representative 
Kai Eide had yet to develop a specific approach to involving 
the neighboring countries but noted Eide needs time. 
 
¶9. (C) Boucher raised the issue of water sharing within 
Central Asia.  Norov explained that the Uzbeks wanted a fair 
apportionment of transborder water so that down stream 
countries would be compensated for losses generated by those 
up stream.  President Karimov has declined to attend the 
October 1 and 2 water meeting in Almaty since the matter 
could be addressed at the already planned Commonwealth of 
Independent States summit on October 9 and 10 in Bishkek. 
Norov stressed Uzbekistan,s preference to deal with water 
issues bilaterally and urged that the U.S. refrain from 
involving itself in the issue.  Boucher asked whether we 
could help improve the efficiency of water consumption 
through better pipelines and irrigation systems.  Norov 
retorted that the Uzbeks had already pursued this option via 
an agreement signed in Abu Dhabi last April with a foreign 
country.  In the interest of comparison, he described how 
although water input from Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan had 
declined by 50 percent this year the Uzbek cotton crop had 
not suffered thanks to better management and new seed grains. 
 He lamented that in Kyrgyzstan corruption wastes 40 percent 
of that nation's electricity that is derived from water. 
Boucher pointed to this as a good reason to pursue water 
saving mechanisms and offered to look into how the United 
States could help.  Norov urged that such help be provided to 
all countries in the region. 
 
¶10. (C) Norov closed by encouraging Under Secretary Burns to 
visit, noting Karimov would definitely want to meet him. 
 
¶11. (C) In a separate conversation with Norov after the 
meeting, Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol urged consideration 
of granting amnesty to Sanjar Umarov, a prisoner convicted 
for "financial" crimes but whose health is seriously 
deteriorating.  His son had recently spoken at a conference 
on human rights in New York.  Krol noted this humanitarian 
act could avert negative attention to Uzbekistan.  Norov 
indicated they would look into it.  On water disputes, Norov 
told Krol he had warned the Tajiks directly, if they build 
the Rohgun hydro-electric plant, Uzbekistan will not permit a 
single railcar to enter Tajikistan. He claimed the Russians 
understand this as well, adding that this is why they are 
dragging their feet with the Tajiks on the project. 
RICE