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RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC
RHEHAAA/NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASHINGTON DC
RUEHGH/AMCONSUL SHANGHAI 7188

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 SHANGHAI 000042 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/CM 
NSC FOR DENNIS WILDER 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL:  2/1/2033 
TAGS: PREL PGOV PTER MARR CH TW IR BM
SUBJECT: SHANGHAI ACADEMICS DISCUSS TAIWAN, NORTH KOREA AND IRAN WITH 
EAP DAS CHRISTENSEN 
 
REF: SHANGHAI 41 
 
CLASSIFIED BY: Kenneth Jarrett, Consul General, U.S. Consulate , 
Shanghai . 
REASON: 1.4 (b), (d) 
 
 
 
¶1.  (C) Summary: In a January 22 lunch, four of Shanghai's 
leading U.S.-China relations academics exchanged views with EAP 
DAS Thomas Christensen on Taiwan, U.S.-China military relations, 
North Korea and China's non-interference principle.  The 
academics expressed concerns about the domestic political 
situation in Taiwan.  They warned that President Chen still had 
the opportunity to cause problems and that if the referendum on 
Taiwan membership in the United Nations passes it would be a 
"disaster" for the Mainland.  The academics supported more 
transparency in the U.S.-China military relationship.  They were 
pessimistic about North Korea, with one academic urging that the 
United States provide more concessions to help the North Koreans 
"relax."  The academics noted that there is room for discussions 
on China's policy of non-interference and said that Sudan, North 
Korea, and antiterrorism efforts are forcing China to adjust its 
policy.  End Summary. 
 
¶2.  (U) The Consul General hosted a lunch in honor of EAP DAS 
Thomas Christensen on January 22 with some of Shanghai's leading 
U.S.-China relations experts.  At the lunch were Shanghai 
Academy of Social Sciences (SASS) Vice-President Huang Renwei, 
Shanghai Institute of American Studies President Ding Xinghao, 
Vice Director of the Center for RimPac Studies at Jiaotong 
University Zhuang Jianzhong, and Fudan University Institute of 
International Studies Associate Dean Ren Xiao.  Deputy Principal 
Officer, Pol/Econ Section Chief and Poloff also attended the 
lunch. 
 
Taiwan: Immature Democracy, Disastrous Referendum 
--------------------------------------------- ---- 
 
¶3.  (C) The academics expressed concerns about Taiwan and noted 
that China continues to be nervous about the March Taiwan 
Presidential elections and the referendum on Taiwan membership 
in the UN.  SASS Vice President Huang said that no one can 
predict the outcome of elections in Taiwan and it is unclear 
whether KMT candidate Ma Ying-jeou will win the Presidential 
election.  Nor is it clear whether President Chen will truly 
step down in May.  Although Chen Shui-bian has stepped down as 
DPP Chairman, DPP candidate Frank Hsieh will still have 
difficulties controlling his party.  Fudan University's Ren 
emphasized that Chen is very unpredictable.  Ren is not 
convinced that Taiwan's democracy will be able to constrain 
President Chen from taking radical actions.  The 2004 
assassination attempt on President Chen and the assassination of 
former Pakistan Prime Minister Bhutto all occurred in 
democracies.  Huang added that Taiwan's democracy is not mature 
yet and it has been very difficult for the Taiwan government to 
make any changes. 
 
¶4.  (C) The academics were also worried about the UN membership 
referendum.  Huang said that it would be a disaster for the 
Mainland if the referendum passes.  Jiaotong University's Zhuang 
said that if the referendum passes there might be pressure on 
the new President of Taiwan to take steps towards independence 
since the referendum would represent the will of the people and 
UN membership is only for nation states.  Zhuang predicted that 
Beijing would not take any strong actions before the Beijing 
Summer Olympics, but warned that the United States needed to 
continue to exert strong pressure on Taiwan to prevent the 
referendum from passing.  Ding noted that the KMT is considering 
whether it should stop people from participating in the 
referendum in order to prevent it from passing.  More than fifty 
percent of the electorate must participate in the referendum for 
it to be valid.  He added that even if the referendum does pass, 
it does not have to become law and urged that the United States 
think of a method to prevent the referendum from taking effect. 
 
¶5.  (C) DAS Christensen urged that the Mainland adopt a more 
patient and moderate stance on Taiwan.  Even if the referendum 
passes, it will not lead to a change in Taiwan's legal status. 
 
SHANGHAI 00000042  002 OF 003 
 
 
In addition, the Taiwan public will not allow President Chen to 
implement any radical policy initiatives as long as China does 
not overreact.  Taiwan's democracy does constrain President Chen 
and the situation would be much more problematic if there was 
not a strong, vibrant democracy in Taiwan.  He also urged that 
the Mainland be prepared to reach out to the next President of 
Taiwan, no matter which candidate is the victor.  Both KMT 
candidate Ma Ying-jeou and DPP candidate Frank Hsieh are more 
moderate than President Chen.  Huang asserted that it would be 
easier for the Mainland to have a formal dialogue with Ma than 
Hsieh because Ma has never denied the "One China" policy.  DAS 
Christensen said that it is also important for the Mainland not 
to have any pre-conditions to beginning talks with Taiwan.  He 
hoped that the academics would help Beijing find a more flexible 
approach to Taiwan. 
 
U.S.-China Military Relations: More Transparency Needed 
--------------------------------------------- ---------- 
 
¶6. (C) Huang noted that he had recently met with U.S. Pacific 
Command (PACOM) Admiral Timothy Keating during the Admiral's 
Shanghai visit.  Admiral Keating had told him that PACOM and the 
Pentagon are more optimistic than before about the U.S.-China 
military relationship.  However, there continues to be a lack of 
mutual trust and confidence.  Huang asked what measures China 
can take to increase trust between the U.S. and Chinese 
militaries.  Zhuang added that it is natural for the Chinese 
military to undertake rapid modernization.  China is becoming a 
big power and needs a big military to help out in conflicts.  He 
also noted that tensions in cross-Strait relations are one 
factor in China's military build-up.  DAS Christensen urged more 
transparency in this area.  It is understandable for China to 
modernize its military, but the speed of modernization and the 
lack of transparency are disconcerting.  Ding urged that there 
also be more transparency on the U.S. side and said it is 
important for the United States to provide briefings on its 
weapons and nuclear capabilities.  The academics supported more 
high-level talks in this area. 
 
North Korea: Still Not Relaxed 
------------------------------ 
 
¶7.  (C) According to Ding, Chinese academics are not very 
optimistic about North Korea.  Ren believed that the reason the 
North Koreans have yet to provide a complete report on their 
nuclear weapons program is because Pyongyang still does not 
trust the United States.  Assistant Secretary Christopher Hill 
makes many statements, but in the eyes of the North Koreans, 
those statements are nothing but empty words, Ren said. 
Pyongyang wants more concessions from the United States.  Ren 
acknowledged that the United States was following the agreement 
produced by the Six-Party Talks, but said that the United States 
needs to think about the ultimate goal of de-nuclearization and 
go beyond the agreement in providing concessions to secure North 
Korean action.  Unless this occurs, the North Koreans will never 
"relax." 
 
¶8.  (C) DAS Christensen disagreed with Ren on a number of 
grounds including that it would be difficult for the 
administration to maintain domestic support, especially on 
Capitol Hill, if the United States provided unreciprocated new 
concessions to North Korea.  Beijing plays a crucial role in 
this process and would be more effective in helping Pyongyang to 
"relax" and follow through with its promises.  Ren did not think 
Beijing would be effective and said that Pyongyang is watching 
Washington not Beijing. 
 
China's Principle of Non-Interference 
------------------------------------- 
 
¶9.  (C) As in his meeting with Shanghai Institute for 
International Studies (SIIS) President Yang Jiemian (reftel), 
DAS Christensen engaged the academics on a discussion on China's 
principle of non-interference.  According to Huang, scholars 
from top to bottom are discussing China's principle of 
non-interference and its relationship with President Hu Jintao's 
"Peaceful Development" and "Harmonious Society" concepts.  Huang 
summarized that "Harmonious Society" is the long-term goal and 
 
SHANGHAI 00000042  003 OF 003 
 
 
"Peaceful Development" is the means of reaching the goal. 
 
¶10.  (C) Huang explained that China's non-interference policy 
began in the 1950's and is still in use today.  However, Sudan, 
North Korea, and the need to fight terrorism have forced China 
to adjust its policies.  China will interfere as long as two 
conditions exist.  First, the country of concern must agree to 
Chinese actions, as had occurred in Sudan.  If the country does 
not agree, China will use "soft power" to put pressure on the 
country to agree.  Second, the action should be within a UN 
framework as occurred with Iran and North Korea.  Working within 
the UN ensures that the actions are acceptable to everyone. 
Huang added that there is a third condition that no one really 
talks about but exists.  The problem has to have some saliency 
or relevance to China.  It does not have to be in China's 
interests, but needs to be relevant to China.  Huang urged that 
the USG and Chinese Government discuss this issue during the 
next round of the Senior Dialogue.  The discussion should not 
mention non-interference but be called something similar to 
"global governance."  Directly discussing China's 
non-interference policy would not be acceptable.  Ren noted a 
Chinese saying that existing things should not be touched, but 
new things can be changed.  While China will not change old 
policies, it can enact new policies. 
 
¶11.  (U) This report was cleared by DAS Christensen. 
JARRETT