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S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 04 CANBERRA 000179 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/23/2018 
TAGS: OVIP GATES ROBERT OVIP NEGROPONTE JOHN PARM
MOPS, KNNP, MARR, PREL, AS 
SUBJECT: AUSMIN 2008: SESSION III (TURKEY, 
NONPROLIFERATION/ARMS CONTROL, REGIONAL ARCHITECTURE, 
SOUTHEAST ASIA, PACIFIC ISLANDS AND NEW ZEALAND) 
 
Classified By: Ambassador Robert D. McCallum, Jr., for reasons 1.4 (b), 
(d). 
 
¶1. (U) February 23, 2008; Parliament House, Canberra, 
Australia. 
 
SUMMARY 
------- 
¶2. (S)  The third session of the U.S.-Australia Ministerial 
(AUSMIN) consultations included a brief update from the U.S. 
on the Turkish incursion into northern Iraq and the status of 
prospects for further progress in the arms control and 
nonproliferation areas.  Discussion focused mostly on 
Southeast Asia and Oceania, however, including on the need 
for a more effective, inclusive regional security 
architecture.  Key points that emerged from the Australian 
foreign and defense ministers included: 1) Australia's 
interest in developing regional mechanisms to curb small arms 
in the Pacific region; 2) reiteration of the GOA's strong 
desire to be included in any regional security framework 
emerging from the Six-Party Talks; 3) commitment by the new 
Australian government to the Trilateral Strategic Dialogue, 
but not to a Quadrilateral Dialogue with India; 4) ongoing 
concern about terrorism and stability in southern Thailand 
and the Philippines, in contrast to Australia's success in 
its counterterrorism cooperation with Indonesia; and 4) 
appreciation for the U.S. decision to expand intelligence 
sharing with New Zealand.  This is the third of four cables 
reporting on AUSMIN 2008.  End summary. 
 
¶3. (U) Participants: 
 
UNITED STATES 
Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates 
 
SIPDIS 
Deputy Secretary of State John D. Negroponte 
Ambassador Robert D. McCallum, Jr. 
Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff 
Admiral Timothy J. Keating, Commander, U.S. Pacific Command 
Acting Assistant Secretary for Political-Military Affairs 
Stephen Mull 
Assistant Secretary of Defense for Asian & Pacific Security 
Affairs James Shinn 
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for East Asian & Pacific 
Affairs Glyn Davies 
Tim Davis, Carol Hanlon, Aleisha Woodward, John Crowley, 
Jessica Powers (Notetakers) 
 
AUSTRALIA 
Minister for Foreign Affairs Stephen Smith 
Minister for Defence Joel Fitzgibbon 
Michael L,Estrange, Secretary of the Department of Foreign 
Affairs and Trade 
Nick Warner, Secretary of the Department of Defence 
Air Chief Marshall Angus Houston, Chief of the Defence Force 
Duncan Lewis, Deputy Secretary of the Department of Prime 
Minister and Cabinet 
Peter Varghese, Director General of the Office of National 
Assessments 
Dennis Richardson, Australian Ambassador to the United States 
Berenice Owen-Jones, Alistair McEachern, Alanna Mackay, 
Antony Horrocks, Marina Tsirbas, Amanda Pickrell, John 
QAntony Horrocks, Marina Tsirbas, Amanda Pickrell, John 
Feakes, Peter West (notetakers). 
 
--------------------------- 
Turkish Incursion into Iraq 
--------------------------- 
 
¶4. (C) At Australia's request, Secretary Gates briefed on 
current Turkish incursions into Iraq, disputing media claims 
of approximately 10,000 Turkish soldiers crossing the border 
 
CANBERRA 00000179  002 OF 004 
 
 
as closer to one-third of that number.  The question, Gates 
said, is whether Turkey can target precisely enough to 
minimize civilian casualties.  In addition, such border 
crossings would only work for the short term, and the 
underlying causes of problems needed to be dealt with. 
Deputy Secretary Negroponte opined the Turks may be trying to 
play one Kurdish faction against another and the Turks really 
need to come to terms with Kurdish President Barzani. 
 
---------------------------------- 
Arms Control and Non-Proliferation 
---------------------------------- 
 
¶5. (C) FM Smith began the discussion by explaining the Rudd 
government came to power committed to do more through 
multilateral fora such as the United Nations, but his two 
days in New York in January 2008 convinced Smith any change 
at the UN is glacial and there is currently no enthusiasm at 
the UN for disarmament issues.  He indicated Australia is 
looking into regional mechanisms to reduce small arms in the 
Pacific region, and asked for ideas on what Australia can do 
further to encourage disarmament and non-proliferation. 
 
¶6. (C) In response to Smith's inquiry into the possibility of 
further nuclear weapons reductions agreements between the 
United States and Russia, Secretary Gates informed the 
Australians we would like to achieve a nuclear reductions 
agreement with Russia before President Putin leaves office in 
May 2008; if the two Presidents could agree, it could be done 
quickly.  While the United States had originally refused to 
consider a legally binding treaty, as Russia preferred, the 
U.S. is now willing to consider such a treaty as long as it 
was modeled on the Moscow agreement (shorter and simpler) 
rather than the phonebook-sized START agreement.  However, 
issues remain, such as how to count nuclear warheads; the 
Russians want to count all warheads, while we would prefer to 
limit it to deployed warheads. 
 
¶7. (C) Acting A/S Mull thanked the Australians for their 
collaboration on the Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI), 
noting this summer will be the fifth anniversary of the 
initiative, which now includes 85 countries.  In response to 
Mull's concern that not many Southeast Asian countries have 
signed onto PSI, Smith opined the reluctance results from 
concerns about China.  Smith expressed appreciation for U.S. 
cooperation on MANPADS, and Mull expressed appreciation for 
Australia's attempts to "introduce realism" into the Oslo 
Process on cluster munitions.  Mull requested continued 
Australian assistance in working to move the issue back to 
the CCW. 
 
--------------------- 
Q--------------------- 
Regional Architecture 
--------------------- 
 
¶8. (C) Deputy Secretary Negroponte argued the fundamental 
problem with Asian regional architecture is, while there are 
different fora for different purposes with overlapping and 
competing agenda, there simply are not effective regional 
fora for political and political/military discussions like 
Europe has developed.  Secretary L'Estrange asserted 
different regional powers backing different organizations 
(United States and Australia focusing on APEC, China on 
ASEAN 3, and Japan the EAS) exacerbated the problem, 
especially since APEC is focused on economic rather than 
security issues and limited by the fact that both Taiwan and 
China are members.  DG Varghese contended the greatest risk 
is China, which has an obvious agenda, would push the 
development of the ASEAN 3 faster than other organizations, 
to the detriment of United States' and Australia's interests. 
 
CANBERRA 00000179  003 OF 004 
 
 
 L'Estrange also shared the Australian position that any 
"plus" to the ASEAN Defense Ministers' Forum should be 
limited to ASEAN nations' traditional security partners. 
 
¶9. (C) FM Smith, who called current regional architecture 
confusing and confused, opined there is a real need for one 
organization to include the United States, Australia, India, 
China, Japan, Korea, and Russia, hinting India should be 
included in APEC.  At the same time, Smith was certain there 
was "no future" for the U.S.-Australia-Japan-India Quad, for 
which, Smith claimed, there was now little enthusiasm in 
Tokyo or New Delhi.  On the other hand, Smith said Australia 
remains firmly committed to pursuing the U.S.-Australia-Japan 
Trilateral Strategic Dialogue at both senior officials' and 
ministerial levels. 
 
¶10. (C) Smith reiterated Australia's desire to be part of any 
security framework growing out of the Six-Party Talks (6PT) 
process.  Negroponte acknowledged Australia's interest, but 
indicated any 6PT successor would depend on progress in 
denuclearizing and perhaps even restoring peace to the Korean 
Peninsula.  Ambassador Richardson shared a conversation he 
had had with former State Department Counselor Phillip 
Zelikow, in which Zelikow asked Richardson why Australia is 
so interested in Northeast Asia and not as keenly interested 
in the Middle East when the two regions are geographically 
equidistant from Australia.  Richardson opined the near 
invasion by Japan during WWII made Northeast Asia 
psychologically much closer to Asia than actual distance 
belies. 
 
-------------- 
Southeast Asia 
-------------- 
 
¶11. (S) FM Smith outlined Australia's efforts to deepen the 
Australia-Indonesia relationship, which, while good, needs to 
move beyond simply government to government to people to 
people.  Air Chief Marshal Houston agreed Australia's mil-mil 
relationship with Indonesia was good, citing in particular 
the "spectacular success" the two countries have had together 
in destroying the operational capability of Jemaah Islamiah 
(JI), efforts to cut supply lines to terrorist training 
camps, and achievements through the Jakarta Centre for Law 
Enforcement Cooperation (JCLEC).  Secretary L'Estrange opined 
the Indonesian president's position is institutionally weak, 
while DG Varghese commented Australian intelligence analysts 
complain Indonesia has become boring and the prospect of 
Indonesia returning to military rule is very low. 
 
¶12. (C) Although Air Chief Marshal Houston said the 
Australia-Malaysia mil-mil relationship was good, in large 
part due to the multilateral confidence building arrangement 
Qpart due to the multilateral confidence building arrangement 
with Singapore, Malaysia, New Zealand, the UK, and Australia, 
Smith claimed Australia could do better with Malaysia and 
Singapore.  (No additional details on how or why were 
discussed.) 
 
¶13. (S) ASD Shinn thanked Australia for the valuable 
intelligence received on events in the Philippines and 
described Ambassador Kristie Kenney as "a powerful tool" in 
U.S. work there.  Smith indicated Australia is concerned 
about counterterrorism and stability in the Philippines and 
southern Thailand.  Varghese echoed: Thailand will "go 
through a rough patch" when the King dies. 
 
¶14. (C) Both sides agreed to continue supporting UN Special 
Envoy Gambari in his efforts in Burma, commenting we would 
all like to see more progress.  Smith singled out China as 
one who should do more, while Negroponte argued ASEAN should 
 
CANBERRA 00000179  004 OF 004 
 
 
take action instead of just talking about the issue.  Shinn 
argued actions taken by the U.S. and Australian Treasury 
Departments was beginning to have an impact. 
 
¶15. (S) Deputy Secretary Negroponte emphasized the United 
States' reliance on Australia for analysis of events in 
Southeast Asia. 
 
------------------------------- 
Pacific Islands and New Zealand 
------------------------------- 
 
¶16. (S) FM Smith indicated Australia has much better 
relations with Papua New Guinea (PNG) and the Solomon Islands 
(SI) than just a few months ago, with "a genuine feeling of a 
fresh approach."  Smith also shared his sense that PNG and SI 
are keen to do something on Fiji.  Secretary L'Estrange 
argued the Pacific Islands Forum (PIF) would not fracture 
over Fiji at this point, saying "If it was going to, it would 
have last year.  It won't crack now."  PDAS Davies briefed on 
his upcoming visit to Fiji, indicating his primary message 
would be one of support for the PIF and insistence that 
interim PM Bainimarama live up to his commitment to hold 
elections by March 2009.  DG Varghese shared Australia's 
analysis that land forces in Fiji are not yet prepared to 
move against Bainimarama and opined the current coup has a 
much smaller support base (Indo-Fijians, Bainimarama, and the 
Mara family) than previous coups. 
 
¶17. (S) Smith emphasized the crucial role New Zealand plays 
in the Pacific: "If we are to succeed Australia and New 
Zealand have to be in lock step."  Fortunately, he said, they 
are at one on all the key issues.  In this context, Smith 
expressed appreciation for the recent U.S. decisions to 
expand intelligence sharing with New Zealand.  While this was 
important to New Zealand, it would also benefit Australia and 
New Zealand as they fulfill their responsibilities in the 
Pacific. 
 
¶18. (U) Secretary Gates, PM Acting Assistant Secretary Mull, 
and EAP Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary Davies cleared 
on this cable. 
 
MCCALLUM