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C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 ROME 002167 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/11/2017 
TAGS: PARM PREL START MNUC MCAP MARR US RS IT NATO
EU 
SUBJECT: A/S DESUTTER'S MEETINGS WITH ITALIAN POLITICAL 
DIRECTOR TERZI AND OTHERS, ROME, SEPTEMBER 12-15 
 
REF: A. ROME 2061 
     ¶B. VATICAN 138 
 
Classified By: Acting Political Minister-Counselor Jonathan Cohen for R 
easons 1.4 (B) and (D) 
 
 ¶1. (SBU) Summary: Assistant Secretary for Verification, 
Compliance, and Implementation Paula A. DeSutter (in Rome for 
meetings from September 10-12 with Russian MFA Director 
Antonov on a post-START arrangement, see Ref A) met September 
12-15 with Italian officials including MFA Political Director 
Giulio Terzi and President of the Italian Center for Higher 
Defense Studies (CASD) Lt. Gen. C. A. Valotto.  Separately, 
she met with Vatican Undersecretary of State Pietro Parolin 
(Ref B).  Topics included the results of the post-START 
negotiations just concluded in Rome and the status of 
negotiations on a broad array of non-proliferation and arms 
control agreements under consideration.  A/S DeSutter also 
spoke on background with Italian senior defense commentators, 
held a roundtable with Italian academics and non-governmental 
(NGO) representatives, met with Embassy Rome first and second 
tour officers, and participated as an observer in an 
EU-organized meeting on WMD strategy (the "Solana 
Initiative").  End Summary. 
 
¶2. (C) At a luncheon hosted by Italian MFA Director General 
for Political Affairs Giulio Terzi on September 12, A/S 
DeSutter discussed the post-START talks, CFE, North Korea, 
CTBT, FMCT, and Libya.  Also present at the lunch were MFA 
Deputy Director General for Political Affairs Filippo Formica 
(formerly Director of the MFA Non-Proliferation Office), MFA 
Political-Military Office Director Gianni Bardini, and MFA 
OSCE Office Director Brunella Borzi.  DeSutter was 
accompanied by NSC Director for Security Cooperation and 
International Security Agreements David Dowley, VCI Senior 
Advisor for Compliance Diplomacy Julie Gianelloni Connor and 
Poloff. 
 
¶3. (C) Terzi thanked A/S DeSutter for her offer to brief the 
Italian MFA on the broad outlines of the post-START talks 
that she and her Russian counterpart were holding in Rome. 
He said that he was scheduled to meet with Ambassador Antonov 
the following day and appreciated the opportunity to hear 
from both sides of the talks.  Russia's new assertiveness in 
its relations with Europe and the U.S. is a major concern for 
Italian foreign policy-makers, who tend to regard Putin's 
behavior as an attempt to create a strategic "gray area" in 
the European security landscape that he can then exploit for 
political purposes. 
 
¶4. (C) A/S DeSutter said that the post-START discussions were 
proceeding in an atmosphere of cordiality and professionalism 
and that the current focus of both sides was to improve the 
confidence building and transparency measures that are 
crucial to the strategic offensive arms reduction regime. 
With the START Treaty expiring at the end of 2009, both sides 
are particularly keen to put in place a durable post-START 
arrangement, but differed over the type of instrument -- 
Moscow Treaty or new START treaty -- best suited to institute 
that arrangement.  A/S DeSutter said that discussions were 
colored by the Russian need to determine what sort of nation 
Russia wants to be, including its degree of integration with 
western countries.  Terzi agreed that it was imperative to 
determine Russian objectives in a number of areas, including 
energy policy. A/S DeSutter remarked that the Russians are 
emphasizing the need for stability and predictability in arms 
control. 
 
¶5. (C) With regard to the debate over the U.S. proposal to 
place interceptors and radar installations in Poland and the 
Czech Republic, DeSutter stressed that ten unarmed 
interceptors did not pose any realistic threat to Russia and 
that current discussions regarding the plan were ongoing 
under the lead of ISN A/S Rood.  When Terzi asked about the 
current status of discussions over the Intermediate-Range 
Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF), DeSutter stressed that Russia 
has not called into question the basic precepts of the 
Treaty, only particular issues bearing on the verification 
 
ROME 00002167  002 OF 004 
 
 
regime. 
 
----------- 
Adapted CFE 
----------- 
 
¶6. (C) When Terzi raised European concerns over the state of 
U.S.-Russian discussions on the Adapted CFE Treaty, DeSutter 
noted that the U.S. position continues to be one of 
demonstrating solidarity with countries that are still 
subjected to the unwanted presence of Russian troops on their 
soil.  Noting that A/S Fried and Russian Deputy Foreign 
Minister Kislyak had just met on CFE issues the previous day, 
DeSutter said that the U.S. and Russia maintained an active 
dialogue on key CFE issues (Moldova, Gudauta, the Flank 
Regime) but stressed that the Europeans had a role to play in 
holding the Russians to the Istanbul commitments and keeping 
them from lapsing into a new Cold War mentality.  She noted 
that certain EU members, particularly Germany and on certain 
issues France, had a tendency to want to achieve a deal with 
the Russians at any cost, including terms that would 
undermine NATO.  She encouraged Italy to continue to play a 
moderating role.  We do much better in these negotiations 
when Russia is faced with a unified U.S. and Europe, she 
said. 
 
¶7. (C) Terzi noted that Italy was currently engaged in a 
balancing act, wanting to be supportive of countries "under 
pressure," such as the UK and Poland, while at the same time 
affirming the common EU position.  By December 12 the EU will 
have a common platform, and Italy will support that position. 
 Terzi commented that Russia needs to understand that the EU 
will stand together.  He welcomed the package presented in 
July in Washington, calling it "timely and well conceived." 
Terzi said that Italy is "pressing" Russia to start the 
ratification process and commented that Italy can be in the 
group of countries that will ratify the Adapted Treaty 
quickly.  He identified two issues - the question of the 
flanks and the definition of "substantial forces" - as 
difficult outstanding areas, saying that it is important for 
Russia to recognize that is in its interest for the "other 
side" to have ceilings.  Formica said that he was planning to 
attend the upcoming CFE seminar in Germany.  He promised to 
take our concerns over German initiatives into consideration. 
 
 
----------- 
North Korea 
----------- 
 
¶8. (C) Responding to Terzi's questions about the reported 
positive outcome of the Six-Party talks on the North Korean 
nuclear program, DeSutter noted that the agreement on 
Yongbyon was a positive step, but that Yongbyon was just one 
piece of the North Korean nuclear puzzle, whose full outlines 
were still to be determined.  Many other aspects of the North 
Korean program, such as uranium processing, had yet to be 
addressed at the necessary level of detail.  She noted that 
the IAEA approached the question from a narrow "safeguards" 
approach, examining materials rather than the broader 
outlines of the program itself. 
 
----------------- 
CTBT, FMCT, PAROS 
----------------- 
 
¶9. (C) Terzi reiterated the EU's support for a speedy entry 
into force of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and asked 
whether the U.S. would recommence testing.  DeSutter said 
that the U.S. had no plans to conduct a test and summarized 
the concerns the U.S. has over the verifiability of the 
treaty and the effectiveness of computer modeling and other 
detection mechanisms.  A CTBT that only banned detectable 
tests would not be a significant achievement.  Formica said 
that Italy welcomed the latest U.S. proposals with regard to 
the Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty, but was concerned about 
obstacles posed by the Chinese and Pakistani positions. 
DeSutter agreed, noting that China is the only nuclear power 
 
ROME 00002167  003 OF 004 
 
 
without a Fissile Material production ban and that China is 
still expanding its nuclear arsenal.  When asked about the 
Russian proposal to ban weapons in outer space (PAROS), 
DeSutter said that the U.S. relied heavily on spaced-based 
satellites for many different functions and has its own 
national security interests to protect.  While the U.S. has 
no plans to develop space-based weapons systems, the proposed 
treaty was not verifiable and would not accomplish its stated 
purpose.  DeSutter noted that the treaty as proposed would 
not protect satellites against ground-based attacks, as 
demonstrated by the recent Chinese destruction of its own 
satellite.  The U.S. would not enter into discussions that 
would impose limitations on the U.S. ability to defend its 
satellite network. 
 
------------------------------------ 
Libyan Chemical Weapons (CW) Program 
------------------------------------ 
 
¶10. (C) DeSutter explained her bureau's involvement in the 
dismantling of the Libyan WMD program and detailed the 
program under which the U.S. had offered to finance the 
destruction of the Libyan CW stockpile and the conversion of 
its CW program to peaceful uses.  She noted that the U.S. had 
"stuck out its neck" in order to secure more time for Tripoli 
to convert its CW production facility and destroy its stocks, 
and therefore had been somewhat surprised to hear reports 
that the Libyans were abandoning a previous plan to use U.S. 
companies for this project in favor of Italian firms.  Terzi 
explained that the Libyans had approached Italy a few years 
ago with a similar request to use Italian financing for the 
conversion of its CW program, in exchange for improved 
cooperation on illegal immigration issues. (Note: the bulk of 
sea-borne clandestine immigration into Italy embarks from 
Libyan ports, but Libyan cooperation with Italian authorities 
has been sporadic and half-hearted.)   After interagency 
consultations, the Italians had agreed to provide assistance, 
and Italian companies were allowed to bid on two Libyan 
contracts, one focusing on destruction and the other on 
conversion of CW-related items.  The Libyans subsequently put 
the project on hold for several months, citing the need to 
consult with the OPCW.  A few months ago the Libyan 
government informed Rome of its desire to go forward with the 
plan, but the Italians subsequently learned that the OPCW was 
still examining the detailed plans.  Terzi said that Italy 
had been surprised to learn that the Libyans had already 
secured financing from the U.S. for the same project. 
 
------------------- 
Additional Meetings 
------------------- 
 
¶11. (U) On September 13, A/S DeSutter, accompanied by Julie 
Connor and VCI/SI Director Jerry Taylor, met with Lt. Gen. 
Giuseppe Valotto, President of CASD (Centro Alti Studi per la 
Difesa -- Center for Higher Defense Studies), the MoD's 
premier training and research center with links to the 
National Defense University in Washington (of which A/S 
DeSutter is a graduate).  Valotto expressed a strong interest 
in the post-START discussions and invited A/S DeSutter to 
deliver a lecture on strategic arms negotiations at CASD 
during a future visit.  Later that day, A/S DeSutter met with 
foreign policy correspondents from leading Italian 
newspapers, who showed great interest in the post-START talks 
(Corriere della Sera, Italy's leading daily, ran a story 
about the talks the next day).  A/S DeSutter also met with 
mission first- and second-tour Foreign Service Officers to 
discuss WMD-related issues and to exchange ideas on how to 
help make demarches in this area more effective. 
 
¶12.  (U) On September 14, A/S DeSutter met with 17 foreign 
policy and international security experts from a wide range 
of Italian think tanks and universities.  Invitees asked a 
number of questions concerning strategic arms reduction, 
non-proliferation, chemical weapons, and CFE, demonstrating 
the high level of Italian academic interest in arms control 
negotiations. 
 
 
ROME 00002167  004 OF 004 
 
 
¶13.  (C) A/S DeSutter participated as an observer September 
15 in a meeting and luncheon organized by Annalisa Giannella, 
who serves as the Personal Representative for 
Nonproliferation of WMD for Javier Solana, the EU High 
Representative for Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP). 
 The meeting served as a preparatory meeting for the proposed 
EU-hosted symposium, "Addressing Strategic Challenges 
Together," scheduled for November 13-14, 2007 in Brussels. 
Some representatives at the preparatory meeting (South 
Africa, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Russia) urged an 
expansion of the conference participants to include other 
countries, such as Cuba, Iran, and North Korea, while EU 
representatives noted that the number of invited countries 
was already quite large (58, plus delegations representing 
international organizations like the IAEA) and that its 
purpose was not to have a worldwide conference but rather a 
smaller conference of countries interested in the issue. 
Concerning topics to be discussed, some countries pressed the 
need to discuss disarmament as well as non-proliferation, and 
the conference organizers clarified that discussion of 
disarmament can be accommodated in the proposed conference 
structure.  The USG rep to the meeting, A/DAS Andrew Semmel, 
said the need was for a smaller, more focused conference 
rather than a conference that would just go over the same 
ground as previous conferences, and A/S DeSutter recommended 
that the conference focus on new initiatives rather than old 
disagreements. At the luncheon, A/DAS Semmel suggested that 
the joint statement on nuclear energy and nuclear energy 
security and cooperation in the July Bush-Putin Declaration 
on Nuclear Energy and Non-Proliferation would provide a good 
example of the kinds of common interests and shared benefits 
the proposed symposium is seeking to highlight. Giannella 
agreed to take all of these comments under consideration, 
though she definitely ruled out the possibility of inviting 
Cuba to the conference due to an outstanding arrest warrant 
in Cuba against HR Solana. 
 
¶14.  (SBU) In separate courtesy calls with DCM Anna Borg and 
Ambassador Spogli on September 10 and 14, A/S DeSutter 
explained the objectives and constraints on the post-START 
discussions and thanked Embassy Rome for hosting the talks 
and Embassy staff for help and support.  Speaking with the 
Ambassador, A/S DeSutter suggested that Rome would make a 
good venue for future talks if sufficient support can be 
arranged. Noting the high level of Italian government and 
press interest in the U.S.-Russian security dialogue, 
Ambassador Spogli and DCM Borg both thanked DeSutter for 
agreeing to meet with the Italian MFA and for taking 
advantage of public diplomacy opportunities while in Rome. 
 
¶15. (U) A/S DeSutter and A/DAS Semmel have cleared this 
message. 
 
¶16. (U) Minimize Considered. 
 
BORG