This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 05 ALGIERS 001766 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 08/20/2015 
TAGS: PREL PTER XF AG UNSC US
SUBJECT: SENATOR LUGAR DISCUSSES REGIONAL ISSUES AND UN 
REFORM WITH BOUTEFLIKA 
 
REF: A. ALGIERS 1753 (NOTAL) 
     ¶B. ALGIERS 1759 (NOTAL) 
 
Classified By: Ambassador Richard W. Erdman, Reason 1.4 (b) (d) 
 
SUMMARY 
 
¶1.  (C) During their August 18 meeting, President Bouteflika 
and Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Senator 
Richard Lugar discussed Morocco and the Western Sahara (ref 
A), U.S.-Algerian bilateral relations, Libya, Iran, Iraq, 
Syria, Lebanon, Israel's withdrawal from Gaza, the coup in 
Mauritania (ref B), Saudi Arabia, and UN reform.  Bouteflika 
offered Algeria's discreet good offices if the U.S. wanted 
help engaging Iran and Syria, both of which he said sought a 
quiet, direct dialogue with the U.S.  On Libya, Bouteflika 
welcomed Qadhafi's decision to give up WMD and the resultant 
improvement of relations with the U.S.  He expressed 
appreciation for Sharon's decision to withdraw from Gaza and 
volunteered that some settlements would remain even after a 
peace settlement, and said Algerians thought only the U.S. 
could achieve a settlement.  On Saudi Arabia, while noting it 
was not his role to defend the Saudis, whom he said had been 
implicated in Islamist extremist terrorism in Algeria, he 
commented that the U.S. should be careful not to send the 
signal that it wanted to do away with the Al Saud.  Senator 
Lugar praised the growing U.S.-Algerian bilateral 
relationship and expressed appreciation for Bouteflika's 
comments. 
 
¶2.  (C)  Lugar said Libya was moving in the right direction. 
He noted that many Americans felt we could not solve the 
Arab-Israeli conflict by ourselves.  He assured Bouteflika 
that the U.S. did not seek to replace the Al Saud, but that 
the Saudis needed to take action to control their own 
extremists and deal with the issues that produced extremism. 
On UN reform, Bouteflika stressed that Algeria supported 
comprehensive reform even though expansion of the Security 
Council unfortunately was getting all the attention.  He 
expressed understanding of the complexity of expanding the 
Security Council; said he recognized that the U.S. would not 
allow new members of the UNSC to have the veto; and noted he 
was only insisting on an African veto "to embarrass the G-4." 
 If expansion did not take place in a "democratic manner," 
Bouteflika said he preferred the status quo.  End Summary. 
 
 U.S.-ALGERIAN COOPERATION EXEMPLARY 
------------------------------------ 
 
¶3.  (C) Senator Lugar began the meeting by thanking 
Bouteflika for the outstanding hospitality and warm reception 
accorded to him and his delegation by the Algerians.  He 
extended greetings from President Bush, and said that on 
behalf of the President and the American people, he was 
conveying sympathy at the loss of the two Algerian diplomats 
killed in Iraq.  Senator Lugar noted the U.S. was pleased 
that Algeria had established an embassy in Baghdad and was 
working with us and others to build democracy in Iraq and 
enable the Iraqi people to stand on their own feet. 
 
¶4.  (C) Turning to bilateral relations, Lugar expressed 
admiration for Bouteflika's leadership in promoting democracy 
and a market economy in Algeria.  Algeria was a major 
provider of natural gas to the U.S., and the Algerian economy 
offered great potential for American investors.  Lugar noted 
the U.S. could learn from Algeria's experience in the war on 
terrorism, and said Algeria's counterterrorism cooperation 
was exemplary.  Bouteflika welcomed Lugar and his 
delegation's visit, adding that Algeria wanted a special 
relationship with the United States.  Algeria could not "make 
miracles," but the U.S. could.  Bouteflika underscored 
Algeria's readiness to extend full cooperation in the 
political, economic, and military areas of the relationship. 
Bouteflika said he was pleased to see improved U.S. relations 
with Libya and Sudan, noting that he had worked with the U.S. 
to bring these improvements to fruition. 
 
IRAN SEEKS DIALOGUE WITH U.S. 
----------------------------- 
 
¶5.  (C) Bouteflika said he sometimes read about Iran's 
history and was struck by the complexity and intelligence of 
Iranian civilization.  Differences with Iran, including the 
nuclear issue, should be addressed through diplomacy.  The 
EU-3 was active in this regard, but Iran was really 
interested only in a quiet dialogue with the U.S.  Evincing 
some sympathy for the Iranian position, Bouteflika said he 
thought Iran wanted to be free to develop a peaceful nuclear 
capability, but then added that Iranian leaders also viewed 
their situation in a regional context, with nuclear-armed 
Pakistan and India next door. 
 
"SYMPATHY AND AFFECTION" FOR IRAQIS 
----------------------------------- 
¶6.  (C) Bouteflika observed that the situation in Iraq was 
complex, with difficult negotiations over the constitution 
continuing.  He thought the formula of a federation was the 
maximum Iraq could manage if Iraqis wanted to keep their 
country united.  The fact that a Kurd was now Iraq's 
President was an important signal of the extent of change. 
Nevertheless, he cautioned that any attempt to establish an 
independent Kurdistan would cause "an explosion" that would 
affect the whole region.  Bouteflika said he was following 
the Iraqi Transitional Government's efforts "with sympathy 
and affection," adding that so far, last January's elections 
had brought the most significant progress.  Elections were 
"not a panacea" but they were important.  Lugar said the 
Iraqis needed the support of the U.S. and the international 
community to establish a new government, restore security, 
and rebuild their country.  He expressed appreciation for 
Bouteflika's comments, saying that the U.S. experience in 
Iraq was difficult and we could learn from the views and 
experience of friends in the region. 
 
ISRAELI WITHDRAWAL FROM GAZA 
---------------------------- 
 
¶7.  (C) Bouteflika said the situation in Iraq could not be 
separated in Arabs' minds from the question of Palestine.  In 
addressing the problem of terrorism, it was essential to 
discuss the root causes.  Israel's withdrawal from Gaza was a 
"step forward," but it must be the beginning of the process 
of establishing a Palestinian state existing beside Israel on 
an equal footing.  Bouteflika acknowledged that dismantling 
settlements was not easy for Sharon.  Looking ahead, 
Bouteflika said Arab normalization of relations with Israel 
will follow naturally from Israeli withdrawal from occupied 
territory.  It was not so important if "one or two 
settlements remained" in Palestine, since many Palestinians 
would live in Israel as well.  It was impossible, he 
stressed, to build a lasting wall between two people who had 
so much in common.  Palestinians had been influenced by 
Israel and were different from other Arabs.  Bouteflika 
commented that the late Yitzhak Rabin, when he wanted to 
compliment Arafat, had told the Palestinian leader that he 
had "some of the qualities of an Israeli Jew."  This was the 
best compliment anyone ever paid to Arafat, Bouteflika joked. 
 
¶8.  (C) Bouteflika said he would like to see Sharon find a 
solution.  There was no doubt that the settlers would leave 
Gaza.  One million European settlers had left Algeria 
overnight.  When the Jewish settlers felt they lived on 
islands surrounded by Arabs, they would leave voluntarily. 
Algerians, he underscored, did not expect a solution to come 
from anyone but the United States.  Senator Lugar said the 
U.S. needed Arab partners and the international community to 
do their part.  Noting Bouteflika's remark that the U.S. must 
assume its responsibilities to achieve peace, Lugar observed 
that many Americans thought the U.S. could not bear all the 
responsibility itself.  The involvement of Europe and other 
friends was needed as well.  Bouteflika said the Europeans 
could offer advice to the U.S. but they had "no capacity to 
act." 
 
ISLAM IS NOT TERRORISM 
---------------------- 
 
¶9.  (C) Bouteflika said all countries had a duty to fight 
terrorism.  Algeria had paid a heavy toll but it had also 
gained valuable experience.  Terrorism was a transnational 
phenomenon, and all the international community's resources 
must be used to fight it.  It would be a great mistake, 
however, to regard Islam as equivalent to terrorism.  There 
was no "green peril" as there had been a "red peril."  Islam 
was a religion of tolerance just like Judaism or 
Christianity.  There must not be a Jewish-Christian crusade 
against Islam.  Nothing, he said, justified suicide bombings, 
which were a barbaric practice.  Nevertheless, Bouteflika 
asserted, it must be admitted that the Palestinian question 
would not have received the level of international attention 
it was getting had it not been for some Palestinians 
resorting to inhuman violence.  He said he was making this 
point to convince the Senator that respect and 
self-determination were serious issues for the region. 
Senator Lugar said he was struck by Bouteflika's comments and 
was concerned by each of the conflicts discussed.  The 
Senator said he had made extensive mental notes and would 
discuss these points with President Bush and Secretary Rice 
when he returned to Washington. 
 
PLEASED WITH LIBYA'S DIRECTION 
------------------------------ 
 
¶10.  (C) Senator Lugar noted that he planned to visit Libya 
after Morocco, adding that he understood that Libya was 
looking for greater clarity regarding the direction of its 
relations with the U.S.  The Senator said he was pleased 
Libya had decided to abandon its pursuit of WMD and that it 
was moving in a more constructive direction.  His visit to 
Libya could also contribute to greater cooperation among 
Maghreb states.  Bouteflika said he was glad the Senator was 
going to visit Libya.  Quoting an Algerian proverb, 
Bouteflika said that convincing the Libyans to work with the 
U.S. had been like teaching someone to pray but then having 
them run away with the prayer rug.  At least with Qadhafi, he 
had run away with the rug but he had run in the right 
direction.  Bouteflika noted that he had just seen Qadhafi in 
Sirte, Libya.  He advised Lugar not to refer to Qadhafi as 
president, but rather as Colonel Qadhafi or as the Leader of 
the Revolution. 
 
ASAD LOOKING FOR REASSURANCE 
---------------------------- 
 
¶11.  (C) Turning to Syria, Bouteflika said Algeria was ready 
to help the U.S. in a discreet, low-key manner if we were 
interested.  Algeria had no direct interests, with only 
"moral satisfaction" to be gained.  Senator Lugar said we saw 
an opportunity for a new relationship with Syria after its 
withdrawal from Lebanon, but first we wanted Syria to take 
steps to halt the infiltration of terrorists into Iraq and to 
cease its support for Hizballah and Palestinian terrorist 
organizations.  The U.S. was prepared to improve relations 
with Syria, but greater Syrian cooperation was needed to 
bring security to Iraq and make progress toward 
Israeli-Palestinian peace.  Bouteflika agreed that Syrian 
support for Hizballah was a problem.  Hizballah was also a 
political party represented in the Lebanese parliament, but 
it was an armed political party.  Syria could help by 
promoting Hizballah's transformation into a normal political 
party. 
 
¶12.  (C) Bouteflika said it was important to remember that 
when the U.S. started to make progress on the Palestinian 
issue, it should not neglect Lebanon's demand for Sheba Farms 
and Syria's demand for the Golan.  Senator Lugar pointed out 
that Israel was no longer occupying Lebanese territory.  DAS 
Gray added that the UN had determined that Israel had fully 
withdrawn from Lebanon and that Sheba Farms was Syrian 
territory.  Ambassador added that Lebanese President Lahoud 
had sent a letter to Kofi Annan confirming that Israel had 
totally withdrawn from Lebanon.  The Lebanese demand for the 
return of Sheba Farms was Syrian propaganda.  Bouteflika 
replied that whether it was Lebanese or Syrian, Sheba Farms 
was still occupied territory and Israel must withdraw from 
it.  Syria had withdrawn its army from Lebanon, but it was 
important to realize that one million Syrians still lived 
there, he claimed.  The Lebanese Shia still depended on 
Syria, especially the speaker of the parliament.  The two 
countries were also linked by commercial interests. 
Bouteflika also cautioned the U.S. not to think it had the 
same goals in Lebanon as the French, even if it now shared 
positions with France.  France sought to get Syria out in 
order to expand French influence, and Chirac wanted personal 
revenge for the killing of his friend, Rafik Hariri. 
 
¶13.  (C) Bouteflika advised the U.S. enter direct discussion 
with Asad without preconceptions.  We should offer assurances 
that the U.S. did not seek to overthrow him and that we were 
ready to offer support if he democratized his regime.  Former 
NEA A/S Burns had talked to Asad about securing the Iraqi 
border and they had agreed on a joint commission.  This could 
be extended, with a bilateral approach to establishing border 
security.  Asad, unlike his father and his brother, was 
British-educated.  If the U.S. would talk to Asad without 
antagonizing him, it would find him ready to engage.  Asad 
could not cooperate if he thought the U.S. wanted to 
overthrow him.  Bouteflika advised the U.S. to engage Asad 
without going through Arab intermediators such as the 
Egyptians or Saudis.  Asad was "not anti-American" and would 
gradually come around if we engaged him.  Bouteflika 
concluded that he knew Asad would like to be reassured 
directly by the U.S.  Another reason Syria was nervous was 
that everyone was talking about the Road Map but no one was 
discussing the Golan.  Asad had withdrawn his army and 
intelligence services from Lebanon, he claimed, and was 
making internal changes.  The U.S. should help him. 
 
DO NOT ABANDON THE AL-SAUD 
-------------------------- 
 
¶14.  (C) Bouteflika asked about U.S. relations with Saudi 
Arabia and particularly King Abdullah.  Senator Lugar said 
the relationship was very important for the U.S.  King 
Abdullah faced enormous problems, and the Saudi Government 
needed to do more to control the infiltration of terrorists 
into Iraq and to improve its internal counterterrorism 
capabilities.  King Abdullah had a reputation as a cautious 
reformer, and he may try to do more now that he's king. 
Abdullah's rule could be promising if he continued to move 
toward greater citizen participation and more democracy.  The 
recent local elections were encouraging, but the Saudis 
needed to move rapidly to build popular support and enhance 
their own stability. 
 
¶15.  (C) Bouteflika said the U.S. knew the strong and weak 
points of the Al Saud.  There was no guarantee that elections 
would produce more stability than continued rule by the sons 
of Abdel Aziz.  There was a greater acceptance of democratic 
ideas in Saudi Arabia, but the Al Saud were the backbone of 
the regime.  They had their limitations, but also their 
strengths, and had proven they could be effective. 
Bouteflika advised Senator Lugar that the U.S. should not 
give the world the impression that it could use the Al Saud 
and then throw them away.  Lugar responded that he had not 
meant to give that impression, adding that the existence of 
anti-regime forces in Saudi Arabia had nothing to do with the 
U.S.  The Saudis must take their own measures to control them. 
 
¶16.  (C) Bouteflika said he agreed, but added there was no 
universal model of democracy.  There was American democracy, 
British democracy, and European democracy based on the French 
model.  It was fine to want Saudi Arabia to be democratic, 
but Saudi democracy would have to be based on their culture 
and history.  Algeria, he noted, was not a monarchy and he 
was not the defender of the Saudis, especially since they 
were implicated in supporting Algerian terrorism.  However, 
for democracy to take root in the Arab world and Africa, the 
political culture must be taken into account.  King Abdullah 
was an old man and would not be around too long.  It would be 
better to wait for the rule of his grandsons, who were all 
American-educated anyway.  "You can wait and talk to them in 
the same language."  If the Al Saud fell, there would be 
instability throughout the Arabian peninsula for years. 
Senator Lugar mentioned that he had appreciated the role of 
Prince Bandar when he had been Ambassador to Washington. 
Bouteflika said there were hundreds of princes like Bandar, 
some of them even more interesting.  For example, he cited 
Prince Abdel Aziz bin Salman, the former astronaut. 
 
UN REFORM 
--------- 
 
¶17.  (C) In concluding the meeting, Bouteflika said he wanted 
to say a few words about reforming the United Nations.  There 
should be comprehensive reform of the entire UN system, not 
just the Security Council.  The General Assembly, for 
example, should have more power, since it was becoming more 
and more like Hyde Park in London, except that in the UN they 
turn off the microphones after a certain point!  Now everyone 
was focused on expanding the Security Council and forgetting 
the other areas of reform.  It was clear, he said, that the 
structure of the Security Council was based on the outcome of 
World War II and needed updating.  The question was how.  It 
was undeniable that India was the world's second largest 
country and a nuclear power.  India could easily submit a 
claim to membership on the Security Council, even without the 
rest of the G-4.  After mentioning pros and cons of several 
claimants to permanent membership, Bouteflika said it was 
difficult to see how to select one or two African countries 
to represent a continent with 43.  Both Nigeria and South 
Africa would make their claim, but Algeria did not want to 
give them a "blank check."  At the end of the day, each 
country represented itself, not an entire region.  Thus, the 
only democratic solution was a rotating seat for Africa. 
 
¶18.  (C) As for Algeria's public insistence that an African 
permanent member have the veto, Bouteflika said he knew for 
sure the U.S. would never allow this to happen, and even if 
Africa got the veto, what would it do with it?  If the U.S. 
wanted to invade a country, it would do so whether the 
Security Council approved or not.  Bouteflika commented that 
his insistence on the veto was intended to "embarrass the 
G-4" since they did not want expansion to take place in a 
democratic framework.  Bouteflika said his bottom line was 
that if Security Council expansion was not going to be done 
in a democratic framework, he preferred the status quo. 
 
¶19.  (U) Senator Lugar thanked Bouteflika for being so 
generous with his time.  Bouteflika said he would permit the 
Senator and his delegation to depart for Tindouf so they 
could carry out the mission of overseeing the release of 404 
Moroccan prisoners, but the Senator must promise to return to 
Algeria another time. 
 
¶20.  (U) Senator Lugar did not have the opportunity to clear 
this message. 
 
¶21.  (U) Minimize considered. 
 
 
ERDMAN