This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 THE HAGUE 000866 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/31/2015 
TAGS: PREL PHUM MARR AF NL
SUBJECT: DASD WAXMAN'S CONSULTATIONS WITH GONL ON TREATMENT 
OF DETAINEES 
 
REF: A. STATE 30940 
     ¶B. THE HAGUE 683 
 
Classified By: CLASSIFIED BY POLITICAL COUNSELOR ANDREW SCHOFER FOR REA 
SONS 1.4 (B AND D) 
 
 ¶1. (C) Summary:  On March 24, DASD for Detainee Affairs 
Matthew Waxman met with senior Dutch MFA and MOD officials 
and a broad GONL interagency team concerning the treatment of 
detainees in the Global War on Terror.  These consultations 
grew out of a recent request from FM Bot to Secretary Rice 
and DepSecDef Wolfowitz.  DASD Waxman and his OSD team 
provided an overview of U.S. detainee policy and addressed 
specific GONL questions regarding U.S. policy on detainee 
matters in the War on Terrorism.  GONL interlocutors 
repeatedly expressed their appreciation for the briefings 
which they had sought following strong parliamentary concerns 
related to the Dutch decision to deploy special forces as a 
coalition member in OEF.  The GONL position as to the 
applicability of the Geneva Conventions and the laws of armed 
conflict (LOAC) to OEF differs from that of the USG.  The 
GONL does not agree with the USG position that Al Qaeda and 
Taliban detainees are unlawful combatants under the laws of 
war.  Both sides share the belief that detainees should be 
accorded humane treatment in accordance with the principles 
of the Conventions.  The Dutch asked whether the U.S. might 
be willing to make a joint statement to this effect, as it 
would help the GONL manage its parliamentary concerns and 
might also prove useful for the U.S. in managing perceptions 
with other European allies.  The Department of Defense agreed 
to consider the idea.  End Summary. 
 
¶2. (C) Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Detainee 
Affairs Matthew Waxman, accompanied by OSD Associate General 
Counsels Eliana Davidson and Diane Beaver and Special 
Assistant for Detainee Affairs Bryan Del Monte visited The 
Hague on March 24 for consultations with the GONL concerning 
treatment of detainees in the Global War on Terror.  This 
visit grew out of a request from FM Bot during his February 
meetings with Secretary Rice and Deputy Secretary of Defense 
Wolfowitz (ref A).  The GONL has faced parliamentary pressure 
on this issue following the government's decision to deploy 
Dutch special operations forces (SOF) personnel to 
Afghanistan to participate in Operation Enduring Freedom.  In 
a recent debate on the issue, MPs expressed strong concerns 
about U.S. treatment of detainees and the possibility that 
Dutch forces might detain Al Qaeda or Taliban members as part 
of combat operations (ref B). 
 
¶3. (C) DASD Waxman first met with MFA Deputy Political 
Director Herman Schaper, MOD Deputy Political Director 
Jan-Dirk Siccama and MFA Special Ambassador for Human Rights 
Piet de Klerk.  Schaper expressed the GONL's appreciation for 
the consultations further to FM Bot's request.  He noted the 
differing views between the U.S. and the GONL as to whether 
Al Qaeda and Taliban detainees were unlawful combatants.  He 
said that treatment of detainees had been used to criticize 
the west, and that since the Netherlands was strongly 
committed to the transatlantic link, the GONL wanted to help 
manage this issue and perhaps build a consensus among allies 
on the matter.  Schaper said the GONL priority was to be sure 
that the minimum standards of international humanitarian law 
applied to detainees.  Given that the Global War on Terror 
represents a new kind of warfare, Schaper suggested that 
perhaps international law needed to be adapted to address it. 
 
¶4. (C) DASD Waxman expressed gratitude for Dutch 
participation and support in the Global War on Terror and 
said the purpose of his visit was to clarify USG policies on 
detainees and refute any misperceptions and to build upon 
areas where there was agreement.  He said that the U.S. 
considers itself to be in a state of war and that it applies 
the laws of armed conflict.  He stressed that the U.S. is 
committed to the Geneva Conventions and to humane treatment 
of detainees.  The U.S. believes the Geneva Conventions 
contain obligations as well as protections.  The Conventions 
recognize lawful combatants in their text so by necessity 
there are unlawful combatants.  Al Qaeda and Taliban do not 
abide by the obligations in the Conventions and are therefore 
not entitled to protection as lawful combatants.  Although Al 
Qaeda and Taliban may not be entitled to protection as 
solders under the Geneva Conventions,  both the President and 
the Secretary of Defense have directed that they be treated 
humanely, regardless of their status.  Schaper asked whether, 
given the open-ended nature of the current conflict, it might 
be worth exploring whether there was international consensus 
to deal with terrorists by adding to the international legal 
structure.  OSD Associate General Counsel Davidson said the 
U.S. looked to existing legal frameworks for guidance and 
that the February 2002 Presidential direction on humane 
treatment of prisoners said the U.S. would treat prisoners in 
a manner consistent with the Geneva Conventions. 
¶5. (C) DASD Waxman and party also participated in an extended 
expert-level meeting chaired by Amb. de Klerk which included 
MFA and MOD legal representatives, action officers from MFA's 
human rights, security policy and political affairs 
departments as well as the MOD general policy affairs 
department.  De Klerk stressed that combating terrorism is 
one of the GONL's highest priorities, both politically and 
militarily.  They also wanted to look at how to do this while 
maintaining respect for human rights.  In that context, the 
GONL sought further information from the U.S. on the 
applicability of the Geneva Conventions, the status of 
prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and renditions.  DASD Waxman said 
that aggressive waging of war against Al Qaeda is not 
inconsistent with humane treatment of prisoners.  Concerning 
the Geneva Conventions, he said that to reward Al Qaeda and 
Taliban detainees with the guarantees of the Geneva 
Convention would only encourage terrorist activity.  De Klerk 
said that in the GONL view if one does not qualify as a 
prisoner of war then one falls under the Fourth Geneva 
Convention.  The Dutch position is that one is either a POW 
or else one is a civilian.  The Netherlands takes the view 
that even if one does not observe the law, the Geneva 
Conventions still apply.  Davidson said the U.S. did not 
share this view of how the Conventions apply, however, the 
U.S. treats detainees in a manner consistent with the 
principles of the Convention.  She also noted that detainees 
at Guantanamo can challenge their detentions in court. 
 
¶6. (C) Concerning Guantanamo, DASD Waxman said that to date, 
the U.S. has released 212 detainees, of which we know at 
least 12 that were transferred or released have returned to 
combat against the U.S.  The U.S. allows ICRC representatives 
to visit with detainees at Guantanamo as well as at U.S. 
facilities at Abu Gharaib and Kandahar and also to have 
access to U.S. commanders.  The President of the ICRC has 
also met with the President, Secretary of State, Secretary of 
Defense, Deputy Secretary of Defense and Vice Chief of the 
Joint Chiefs of Staff.  De Klerk said he was pleased this 
dialogue existed but noted that certain requests of UNHCR 
Special Rapporteurs had been refused.  He said this could 
strengthen the hand of other countries that deny access to 
the UNHCR Special Rapporteurs.  Regarding the treatment of 
detainees, Davidson stressed that clear guidance was being 
provided to combatant commanders and that this guidance had 
been reviewed by the Department of Justice and Staff 
Advocates to confirm it comports with U.S. Federal Law and 
U.S. international obligations.  The U.S. is also are 
currently updating military manuals for dealing with 
detainees. 
 
¶7. (C) In response to Dutch questions on renditions, Waxman 
said the U.S. does not send anyone to another country for the 
purpose of being tortured nor do we send anyone to a country 
where we believe it is more likely than not that the detainee 
will be tortured.  We seek assurances from receiving 
countries that they will not be tortured and comply with our 
treaty requirements and international obligations. 
 
¶8. (C) While noting the difference of interpretation of the 
Geneva Conventions, the Dutch side asked if it would be 
possible to reach some sort of statement of consensus on 
practices in treatment of detainees.  This would be helpful 
to the Dutch government in answering parliamentary concerns, 
but might also help the U.S. in persuading other allies of 
its point of view.  DASD Waxman said the Department of 
Defense would be interested in exploring the idea of such a 
statement.  De Klerk expects to be visiting Washington in 
April and may follow up on this issue. 
 
Comment: 
 
¶9. (C) The Dutch underlined their strong appreciation for the 
opportunity to consult on these issues.  Despite our 
disagreement over the status of AlQaeda and Taliban detainees 
with respect to the Geneva Conventions, continuing dialogue 
with the USG on this issue will help the GONL manage domestic 
political questions.  In addition, some sort of U.S.-Dutch 
joint statement of principles conferring the humane treatment 
of detainees would likely be of considerable help to the GONL 
in addressing parliamentary concerns.  Given the Netherlands' 
strong reputation both globally and in Europe as outspoken 
defenders of human rights, association with the Dutch in such 
a joint statement might be useful in addressing this issue 
with other European allies and partners.  Post appreciates 
DASD Waxman's last minute schedule change to accommodate this 
visit. 
 
¶10. (U) DASD Waxman cleared this cable. 
SOBEL