This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HO CHI MINH CITY 000870 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
 
DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/BCLTV, DRL/IRF 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM SOCI PGOV SCUL PREL KIRF VM HUMANR RELFREE
SUBJECT: HCMC RELIGION COMMITTEE DISCUSSES DETAINED MENNONITE 
PASTOR WITH HOUSE CHURCH LEADER 
 
REF: A)HCMC 0232  B)HCMC 0796  C)HCMC 0789  D)03 HCMC 0251 E)03 
HCMC 1222 
 
¶1.  (SBU)  Summary:  On June 23, ranking officials from the HCMC 
Committee for Religious Affairs (CRA) met with Vietnam Evangelical 
Fellowship (VEF) leader Pham Dinh Nhan (please protect) to 
admonish him over his activities on behalf of detained Mennonite 
Pastor Nguyen Hong Quang and, more generally, the underground 
house church movement.  Although the meeting's primary purpose was 
to warn the VEF not to protest Pastor Quang's arrest, Pastor Nhan 
said he welcomed the opportunity to discuss the house church 
movement with CRA officials, after seeking unsuccessfully for 
several years to arrange a formal meeting for his organization. 
While his meeting with the CRA did not yield new information about 
Pastor Quang, Pastor Nhan told ConGenoffs that police have 
continued to question Pastor Quang's wife and at least one other 
VEF pastor.  He believes that the GVN plans to deal with Pastor 
Quang harshly.  End Summary. 
 
¶2.  (SBU)  On the morning of June 23, Protestant Pastor Pham Dinh 
Nhan met with Mr. Vo Ngoc Hue (First Deputy) and Mr. Tran Ngoc Bao 
(Catholic and Protestant Affairs) of the HCMC Committee for 
Religious Affairs, at their request.  He met with ConGenoffs later 
that same afternoon.  According to Pastor Nhan, the CRA officials 
told him they had requested the meeting in response to his March 
2004 letter to HCMC Communist Party Secretary Nguyen Minh Triet 
concerning the arrests of four Mennonite followers of Pastor Quang 
(ref A) earlier that month.  They also chastised him for his 
letter to the VEF membership regarding Pastor Quang's recent 
detention (refs B and C).  (Pastor Quang is affiliated with the 
VEF.)  That letter was also posted on the Internet.  The CRA 
officials warned Pastor Nhan against sending any further letters 
on behalf of the VEF, since the organization is not legally 
recognized by the GVN.  They emphasized that since the VEF had no 
legal rights, no one could refer to the entity as an organization, 
draft or send correspondence on its behalf, or claim to serve in a 
VEF leadership position. 
 
¶3.  (SBU)  Pastor Nhan told ConGenoffs he had challenged the CRA 
officials by redirecting the conversation toward a discussion of 
the history of the house church movement and its current needs and 
struggles in Vietnam.  While the CRA continued to focus on the 
illegal status of the VEF and the unlawful nature of the group's 
activities, he tried to use the meeting as a forum to explain the 
house church movement and urge the GVN to allow unregistered 
churches to operate freely.  Pastor Nhan pointed out to the 
officials that believers have waited nearly 30 years for progress 
in achieving legal recognition and freedom to worship without 
government interference.  The officials countered that, while 
mistakes had been made in prior decades, the past six years have 
seen real change and, as such, the GVN should be evaluated based 
only on what has transpired in the more recent past.  Furthermore, 
the officials claimed the GVN did not interfere with worship at 
most house churches, but only those that were "very extreme." 
They said the GVN had to "stop" those who were "extreme." 
 
¶4.  (SBU)  Pastor Nhan said he had been firm in asserting that 
problems remained, even for moderates.  He pressed the GVN to stop 
slandering Pastor Quang in the press when he had not yet been 
convicted of anything.  He stressed that the GVN should stop 
trying to ignore the existence of house churches by refusing to 
grant them legal status.  It was time to accept that the house 
churches were a fact in Vietnam, as in other countries around the 
world.  The GVN should work to find a way to accommodate house 
churches and address their spiritual needs.  While the house 
churches in big cities like HCMC rarely had problems, Pastor Nhan 
had complained that the lack of clear direction from the central 
government allowed provincial police in remote or less developed 
areas of the country to take matters into their own hands.  He 
asserted that most house church members wanted to cooperate with 
the GVN, but only if they were allowed to practice their religion 
as they wished.  The CRA responded that the GVN provides for 
spiritual needs by allowing individuals and families to worship 
privately in their homes, as well as in registered churches.  They 
pointed to the expected issuance of a new religious decree in 
November that would reaffirm those rights.  (Pastor Nhan told 
ConGenoffs he was concerned the decree would make the situation 
worse for house churches by making organized religious activities 
even more restricted and controlled.  He worried that this could 
lead to "more and more serious conflict.") 
 
¶5.  (SBU)  According to Pastor Nhan, the CRA members also told him 
it was "not good" that "some among your group" are speaking with 
officers at the Consulate General in HCMC.  The CRA members 
claimed this needlessly inflated small matters that should be 
handled without foreign government involvement.  However, Pastor 
Nhan said he was not worried about his own safety.  In fact, 
despite their warnings, the pastor was pleased to meet with the 
CRA members, because the VEF had been requesting a formal meeting 
with the CRA for the past several years without success.  He 
interpreted the CRA's reluctance to meet officially with the VEF 
as a reflection of their concern that they would somehow confer 
legitimacy on the house church movement.  In fact, the CRA members 
stressed that the June 23rd meeting should be considered as a 
discussion among "private individuals" and had refused Pastor 
Nhan's request to include other VEF officials.  Still, Pastor Nhan 
viewed the session positively, seeing it as a step toward 
establishing a dialogue between the Committee and house church 
leaders.  He was pleased that the CRA officials expressed a 
"general willingness" to receive information about house churches 
and perhaps meet again in the future, although they did not want 
this meeting or the possibility of a future meeting discussed with 
others. 
 
¶6.  (SBU)  The CRA officials did not provide any information about 
Pastor Quang's current condition, whereabouts, or the timeline 
under which his case might proceed.  The VEF believes that Pastor 
Quang is being held in District 2, but police there have not 
confirmed this and have refused to accept personal items that 
family members have brought for Pastor Quang.  Meanwhile, police 
continue to "invite" Pastor Quang's wife to the police station, 
where they have pressed her to sign a document stating she 
witnessed them open sealed evidence bags taken from the June 9 
search of Pastor Quang's house.  Not knowing if the bags were 
opened and then resealed by the police, she has refused to sign 
anything.  The police have called in at least one other VEF pastor 
to express their anger about the letter Pastor Nhan sent to VEF 
members announcing the detention of Pastor Quang.  In addition, 
Pastor Nhan said police are actively searching for Pastor Quang's 
assistant, whom they had previously questioned and released. 
Pastor Nhan noted that documents taken by the police from Quang's 
residence would make it clear that the assistant was fully 
involved in Pastor Quang's work.  Pastor Nhan told ConGen that a 
third individual associated with Pastor Quang and the March events 
was detained on June 30th.  Separately, Mennonite Church USA sent 
Embassy Hanoi a letter that reports unsubstantiated claims of 
beatings, destruction of homes and personal effects, and even 
possible loss of life.  (Note:  In the past, Pastor Quang has 
indicated he has little contact with his church in the U.S.) 
 
¶7.  (SBU)  Pastor Nhan believes recent police and CRA warnings to 
various church leaders not to become involved in Pastor Quang's 
case are a sign that the GVN is preparing to deal "severely" with 
Pastor Quang once he is brought to trial.  In this context, Pastor 
Nhan said he had heard that CRA officials had spoken with the 
Southern Evangelical Church of Vietnam (SECV -- the registered 
Protestant umbrella group in the south) leadership about Pastor 
Quang.  The CRA officials reportedly conveyed the message that the 
SECV should not interfere, since Pastor Quang is of a different 
denomination and this is not a church issue.  In addition, the 
government had warned Pastor Quang about his activities many times 
and he had chosen not to listen.  Pastor Nhan noted that the GVN's 
charges against Pastor Quang "cover everything" except religious 
activities, allowing them to portray this as a secular matter. 
 
¶8.  (SBU)  When asked what role the USG could play in promoting 
religious freedom in Vietnam, Pastor Nhan urged the USG to 
encourage increased dialogue between Vietnamese government 
officials and house church leaders.  He said many GVN officials, 
including some on the CRA, appear to have a very limited 
understanding of the house church movement, and he would welcome 
any opportunity to educate them.  He also hoped that USG officials 
would continue to seek information about the "real situation" that 
house churches face.  He stressed, however, that progress on 
religious freedom in Vietnam would take time. 
 
¶9.  (SBU)  Comment:  As Post has reported previously (reftels), 
Pastor Quang has a mixed record that complicates any response by 
his followers or others to his detention.  On the one hand he has 
a long history as a house church leader who has faced difficulties 
directly related to this role.  On the other hand, he has admitted 
to ConGen that reports of GVN actions against him have at times 
been exaggerated in order to gain international support.  He has 
also engaged in some questionable activities as part of his 
activist campaign against the GVN that may leave him open to 
arrest based on non-religious activities, regardless of his 
motivation.  It appears from Pastor Nhan's remarks that the GVN 
may be moving to exploit this vulnerability. 
YAMAUCHI