This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.

S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 02 ROME 001050 
 
SIPDIS 
 
 
NOFORN 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/04/2014 
TAGS: IT KDEM PHUM PREL SENV EG HUMAN RIGHTS
SUBJECT: MEETING BETWEEN U/S DOBRIANSKY AND ITALIAN FOREIGN 
MINISTER FRATTINI, MARCH 4, 2004 
 
CLASSIFIED BY: AMBASSADOR MEL SEMBLER FOR REASONS 1.5(B) AND (D) 
 
¶1.    (S)   SUMMARY.  U/S PAULA DOBRIANSKY HELD A BILATERAL 
MEETING WITH FM FRATTINI ON MARCH 4 AT THE ITALIAN FOREIGN 
    MINISTRY.  THE UNDER SECRETARY RAISED FOUR ISSUES, INCLUDING 
THE COMMUNITY OF DEMOCRACIES, THE U.N. HUMAN RIGHTS 
COMMISSION, ECOSOC MEMBERSHIP AND MONTREAL PROTOCOL LIMITS ON 
METHYL BROMIDE.  AMBASSADOR SEMBLER RAISED THE ISSUE OF U/S 
GROSSMAN'S RECENT TRIP TO EGYPT, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE FM'S 
MEETING WITH EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT MUBARAK LATER IN THE DAY. SEE 
PARA 4 FOR ACTION REQUEST. 
 
U.S. ATTENDEES: U/S PAULA DOBRIANSKY, AMBASSADOR MEL SEMBLER, 
G SPECIAL ASSISTANT CHRISTIAN WHITON (NOTETAKER) 
 
ITALY ATTENDEES: FM FRANCO FRATTINI, MINISTER CESARE 
RAGAGLINI, CHIEF OF STAFF TO MINISTER FRATTINI, DIRECTOR 
GENERAL OF POLITICAL AFFAIRS AMBASSADOR GIANCARLO ARAGONA 
 
END SUMMARY. 
 
THE COMMUNITY OF DEMOCRACIES 
 
¶2.    (S)   U/S DOBRIANSKY RAISED THE ISSUE OF THE COMMUNITY 
OF DEMOCRACIES BY THANKING THE FM FOR ITALY'S SUPPORT FOR THE 
COMMUNITY, AS WELL AS HIS PERSONAL ATTENTION TO THE ISSUE. 
THE FM REITERATED HIS SUPPORT AND NOTED ITALY'S STRONG 
INTEREST IN JOINING THE COMMUNITY'S CONVENING GROUP.  HE 
NOTED THAT ITALY HAD BEEN ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE 
CONVENING GROUP IN THE PAST ON AN AD HOC BASIS, AND WISHED 
FOR ITALY TO BE A FORMAL MEMBER.  U/S DOBRIANSKY NOTED THAT 
CHILE, THE CURRENT CHAIR, IS IN THE PROCESS OF ESTABLISHING 
AN OPEN, TRANSPARENT PROCESS TO PLACE COUNTRIES IN THE 
CONVENING GROUP IN A METHODICAL WAY.  THE FM ACCEPTED THE 
NECESSITY OF THIS, AND BOTH HE AND THE UNDER SECRETARY AGREED 
    ON THE USEFULNESS OF HAVING A MIDDLE EASTERN NATION IN THE 
CONVENING GROUP, IF POSSIBLE. 
 
¶3.    (S)  AS A SUBTOPIC TO THE COMMUNITY OF DEMOCRACIES 
DISCUSSION, U/S DOBRIANSKY SAID THAT EAST TIMOR'S MINISTER OF 
FOREIGN AFFAIRS ASKED FOR A GROUP OF GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, 
WHICH CAN SHARE THEIR EXPERTISE IN THE RULE OF LAW, 
INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY MATTERS AND BUILDING A PROFESSIONAL 
POLICE FORCE, TO COME TO THE NATION TO CONSULT WITH THE 
GOVERNMENT.  PORTUGAL AND MEXICO HAVE EXPRESSED INTEREST, AND 
U/S DOBRIANSKY ASKED IF ITALY WOULD PARTICIPATE.  NOTING THAT 
HIS NATION HAD SENT TROOPS TO EAST TIMOR, THE FM SAID ITALY 
WOULD ACTIVELY EXPLORE THE IDEA. 
 
¶4.    (S)  ACTION REQUEST: FM FRATTINI REQUESTED MORE 
INFORMATION ABOUT THE INITIATIVE, AND NOTED THAT ITALY'S 
EMBASSY IN WASHINGTON WOULD FOLLOW-UP WITH DEPARTMENT 
OFFICIALS. 
 
THE U.N. COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS 
 
¶5.    (S)   NEXT, U/S DOBRIANSKY RAISED THE UPCOMING UNHRC 
MEETING IN GENEVA.  SHE SPECIFICALLY ASKED ABOUT ITALY'S 
WILLINGNESS TO SUPPORT A CANADIAN RESOLUTION CONDEMNING IRAN 
FOR HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES, PARTICULARLY IN THE WAKE OF THEIR 
RECENT "ELECTIONS." 
 
¶6.    (S)   THE FM RESPONDED THAT THIS WAS A SENSITIVE ISSUE 
FOR THEM, GIVEN THEIR "FRANK, OPEN AND CRITICAL DIALOGUE WITH 
IRAN."  AFTER ACKNOWLEDGING IRAN'S PROBLEMS, THE FM SAID HE 
DID NOT AGREE WITH THOSE WHO WANTED TO ISOLATE IRAN. 

¶7.    (S)   U/S DOBRIANSKY PRESSED THE FM, NOTING THAT THE 
COMMISSION IS SEEN AS A FORUM WHERE THESE SPECIFIC ISSUES ARE 
TO BE DISCUSSED, AND BEING OPEN AND FRANK WITH HUMAN RIGHTS 
ABUSERS CAN ACTUALLY BE BENEFICIAL TO ENGAGEMENT, BECAUSE IT 
LAYS DOWN MARKERS AND CREATES A SENSE OF CANDOR.  SHE NOTED 
THAT WE ARE ENGAGED IN DISCUSSIONS THAT INCLUDE NORTH KOREA, 
YET WE STILL SPONSORED A RESOLUTION ABOUT THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS 
ABUSES. 
 
¶8.    (S)   THE UNDER SECRETARY ALSO NOTED THAT THE UNITED 
STATES IS CONCERNED WITH THE MAKEUP OF THE COMMISSION, CITING 
LAST YEAR'S CHAIRMANSHIP OF LIBYA, AND THE INITIAL RETICENCE 
OF SOME AFRICAN NATIONS TO ALLOW AUSTRALIA TO CHAIR THIS 
YEAR'S SESSION.  U/S DOBRIANSKY RAISED COMMUNITY OF 
DEMOCRACIES EFFORTS TO DEVELOP A DEMOCRACY CAUCUS WITHIN THIS 
AND OTHER UN BODIES.  THIS DEMOCRACY CAUCUS, NOW COORDINATED 
UNDER CHILEAN LEADERSHIP, WILL PROVIDE A NETWORK FOR 
DEMOCRACIES TO COORDINATE THEIR VOTING ON SPECIFIC 
RESOLUTIONS, UN DEMOCRACY INITIATIVES, AND HOPEFULLY 
CANDIDACIES FOR CHR AND OTHER BODIES. 
 
¶9.    (S)   RETURNING TO THE CANADIAN RESOLUTION ON IRAN, U/S 
DOBRIANSKY NOTED THAT WE ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH ITALY AND 
 
ROME 00001050  001.2 OF 002 
 
 PAULA DOBRIANSKY HELD A BILATERAL 
MEETING WITH FM FRATTINI ON MARCH 4 AT THE ITALIAN FOREIGN 
MINISTRY.  THE UNDER SECRETARY RAISED FOUR ISSUES, INCLUDING 
THE COMMUNITY OF DEMOCRACIES, THE U.N. HUMAN RIGHTS 
COMMISSION, ECOSOC MEMBERSHIP AND MONTREAL PROTOCOL LIMITS ON 
METHYL BROMIDE.  AMBASSADOR SEMBLER RAISED THE ISSUE OF U/S 
GROSSMAN'S RECENT TRIP TO EGYPT, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE FM'S 
MEETING WITH EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT MUBARAK LATER IN THE DAY. SEE 
PARA 4 FOR ACTION REQUEST. 
 
U.S. ATTENDEES: U/S PAULA DOBRIANSKY, AMBASSADOR MEL SEMBLER, 
G SPECIAL ASSISTANT CHRISTIAN WHITON (NOTETAKER) 
 
ITALY ATTENDEES: FM FRANCO FRATTINI, MINISTER CESARE 
RAGAGLINI, CHIEF OF STAFF TO MINISTER FRATTINI, DIRECTOR 
GENERAL OF POLITICAL AFFAIRS AMBASSADOR GIANCARLO ARAGONA 
 
END SUMMARY. 
 
THE COMMUNITY OF DEMOCRACIES 
 
¶2.    (S)   U/S DOBRIANSKY RAISED THE ISSUE OF THE COMMUNITY 
OF DEMOCRACIES BY THANKING THE FM FOR ITALY'S SUPPORT FOR THE 
COMMUNITY, AS WELL AS HIS PERSONAL ATTENTION TO THE ISSUE. 
THE FM REITERATED HIS SUPPORT AND NOTED ITALY'S STRONG 
INTEREST IN JOINING THE COMMUNITY'S CONVENING GROUP.  HE 
NOTED THAT ITALY HAD BEEN ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE 
CONVENING GROUP IN THE PAST ON AN AD HOC BASIS, AND WISHED 
FOR ITALY TO BE A FORMAL MEMBER.  U/S DOBRIANSKY NOTED THAT 
CHILE, THE CURRENT CHAIR, IS IN THE PROCESS OF ESTABLISHING 
AN OPEN, TRANSPARENT PROCESS TO PLACE COUNTRIES IN THE 
    CONVENING GROUP IN A METHODICAL WAY.  THE FM ACCEPTED THE 
NECESSITY OF THIS, AND BOTH HE AND THE UNDER SECRETARY AGREED 
ON THE USEFULNESS OF HAVING A MIDDLE EASTERN NATION IN THE 
CONVENING GROUP, IF POSSIBLE. 
¶3.    (S)  AS A SUBTOPIC TO THE COMMUNITY OF DEMOCRACIES 
DISCUSSION, U/S DOBRIANSKY SAID THAT EAST TIMOR'S MINISTER OF 
FOREIGN AFFAIRS ASKED FOR A GROUP OF GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, 
WHICH CAN SHARE THEIR EXPERTISE IN THE RULE OF LAW, 
INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY MATTERS AND BUILDING A PROFESSIONAL 
POLICE FORCE, TO COME TO THE NATION TO CONSULT WITH THE 
GOVERNMENT.  PORTUGAL AND MEXICO HAVE EXPRESSED INTEREST, AND 
U/S DOBRIANSKY ASKED IF ITALY WOULD PARTICIPATE.  NOTING THAT 
HIS NATION HAD SENT TROOPS TO EAST TIMOR, THE FM SAID ITALY 
WOULD ACTIVELY EXPLORE THE IDEA. 
 
¶4.    (S)  ACTION REQUEST: FM FRATTINI REQUESTED MORE 
INFORMATION ABOUT THE INITIATIVE, AND NOTED THAT ITALY'S 
EMBASSY IN WASHINGTON WOULD FOLLOW-UP WITH DEPARTMENT 
OFFICIALS. 
 
THE U.N. COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS 
 
¶5.    (S)   NEXT, U/S DOBRIANSKY RAISED THE UPCOMING UNHRC 
MEETING IN GENEVA.  SHE SPECIFICALLY ASKED ABOUT ITALY'S 
WILLINGNESS TO SUPPORT A CANADIAN RESOLUTION CONDEMNING IRAN 
FOR HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES, PARTICULARLY IN THE WAKE OF THEIR 
RECENT "ELECTIONS." 
 
¶6.    (S)   THE FM RESPONDED THAT THIS WAS A SENSITIVE ISSUE 
FOR THEM, GIVEN THEIR "FRANK, OPEN AND CRITICAL DIALOGUE WITH 
IRAN."  AFTER ACKNOWLEDGING IRAN'S PROBLEMS, THE FM SAID HE 
    DID NOT AGREE WITH THOSE WHO WANTED TO ISOLATE IRAN. 
 
¶7.    (S)   U/S DOBRIANSKY PRESSED THE FM, NOTING THAT THE 
COMMISSION IS SEEN AS A FORUM WHERE THESE SPECIFIC ISSUES ARE 
TO BE DISCUSSED, AND BEING OPEN AND FRANK WITH HUMAN RIGHTS 
ABUSERS CAN ACTUALLY BE BENEFICIAL TO ENGAGEMENT, BECAUSE IT 
LAYS DOWN MARKERS AND CREATES A SENSE OF CANDOR.  SHE NOTED 
THAT WE ARE ENGAGED IN DISCUSSIONS THAT INCLUDE NORTH KOREA, 
YET WE STILL SPONSORED A RESOLUTION ABOUT THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS 
ABUSES. 
 
¶8.    (S)   THE UNDER SECRETARY ALSO NOTED THAT THE UNITED 
STATES IS CONCERNED WITH THE MAKEUP OF THE COMMISSION, CITING 
LAST YEAR'S CHAIRMANSHIP OF LIBYA, AND THE INITIAL RETICENCE 
OF SOME AFRICAN NATIONS TO ALLOW AUSTRALIA TO CHAIR THIS 
YEAR'S SESSION.  U/S DOBRIANSKY RAISED COMMUNITY OF 
DEMOCRACIES EFFORTS TO DEVELOP A DEMOCRACY CAUCUS WITHIN THIS 
AND OTHER UN BODIES.  THIS DEMOCRACY CAUCUS, NOW COORDINATED 
UNDER CHILEAN LEADERSHIP, WILL PROVIDE A NETWORK FOR 
DEMOCRACIES TO COORDINATE THEIR VOTING ON SPECIFIC 
RESOLUTIONS, UN DEMOCRACY INITIATIVES, AND HOPEFULLY 
CANDIDACIES FOR CHR AND OTHER BODIES. 
 
¶9.    (S)   RETURNING TO THE CANADIAN RESOLUTION ON IRAN, U/S 
DOBRIANSKY NOTED THAT WE ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH ITALY AND 
 
ROME 00001050  002.1 OF 002 
 
¶Y.  THE FM CONCLUDED THAT 
"I AM CONVINCED ON THIS ISSUE, WE MUST BE UNITED." 
 
    ECOSOC 
 
¶10.   (S)   U/S DOBRIANSKY BROUGHT UP THE U.N. ECONOMIC AND 
SOCIAL COUNCIL, AND STATED THAT WE WANTED TO ENCOURAGE 
DEMOCRATIC NATIONS TO PARTICIPATE AND STRATEGIZE WITH ITALY 
IN ACHIEVING THIS GOAL: WORKING IN ECOSOC TO ELECT MORE 
DEMOCRACIES TO THE CHR AND ECOSOC.  THE FM RESPONDED THAT "WE 
ARE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT SPREADING DEMOCRACY, SO WE CAN HELP." 
 
METHYL BROMIDE 
 
¶11.   (S)   U/S DOBRIANSKY BROUGHT UP THE TOPIC OF METHYL 
BROMIDE AND THE UPCOMING MEETING IN MONTREAL TO ADDRESS THE 
CRITICAL NEED OF AMERICAN AGRICULTURE TO TEMPORARILY SLOW THE 
PHASING OUT OF THIS CHEMICAL UNDER THE TERMS OF THE MONTREAL 
PROTOCOL.  THE U/S INDICATED THAT THE UNITED STATES SUPPORTS 
THE TECHNICAL COMMITTEE'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CRITICAL USE 
EXEMPTION OF 35% OF BASELINE LEVELS AND THAT THE UNITED 
STATES WOULD ALSO BE SUBMITTING A SUPPLEMENTAL REQUEST OF 2% 
FOR 2005.  THE U/S EXPRESSED THAT THE UNITED STATES WOULD BE 
LOOKING TO HAVE PARTIES TO THE CONVENTION AGREE TO A 
MULTIYEAR APPROACH TO ESTABLISHING THE CRITICAL USE 
EXEMPTIONS.  THE FM WAS UNFAMILIAR WITH THE ISSUE, AND U/S 
DOBRIANSKY PROVIDED AN OVERVIEW.  SHE EXPLAINED THAT SHE 
WOULD DISCUSS IT WITH ITALIAN ENVIRONMENT MINISTER MATTEOLI, 
BUT THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT AND URGENT ENOUGH TO BRING IT TO 
HIS ATTENTION AS WELL.  THE FM SEEMED INTERESTED IN THE 
ISSUE, AND REQUESTED MORE DETAILS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. 
GME/EGYPTIAN RESISTANCE 
 
¶12.   (S)   AMBASSADOR SEMBLER BROUGHT UP RECENT DIFFERENCES 
    THAT OCCURRED IN A MEETING IN CAIRO BETWEEN U/S GROSSMAN AND 
EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT MUBARAK OVER THE TOPIC OF THE GREATER 
MIDDLE EAST INITIATIVE.  THE AMBASSADOR NOTED THAT THE FM AND 
PM BERLUSCONI WERE SOON TO MEET WITH MUBARAK AND THAT HE 
HOPED THEY COULD HELP SMOOTH THINGS OVER.  FRATTINI WAS AWARE 
OF THE ISSUE AND NOTED THAT AN EGYPTIAN JOURNALIST RECENTLY 
ASKED HIM ABOUT "THE FAILURE OF UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN'S 
VISIT."  (FRATTINI ASKED THE JOURNALIST WHY HE CHARACTERIZED 
IT THAT WAY, TO WHICH THE JOURNALIST REPLIED THAT WAS THE 
GENERAL PERCEPTION IN EGYPT.)  U/S DOBRIANSKY NOTED THAT SOME 
IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAD THE PERCEPTION THAT THE INITIATIVE WAS 
SOMETHING BEING IMPOSED ON THEM, WHICH IS NOT TRUE.  RATHER, 
IT IS A WAY TO GET MIDDLE EASTERN COUNTRIES TO TAKE OWNERSHIP 
OF THE ISSUES AND ADDRESS THEM DIRECTLY, EXPLAINED U/S 
DOBRIANSKY.  THE FM REPLIED THAT ITALY SUPPORTS A 
CONSULTATIVE, NON-PATERNALISTIC APPROACH, AND WOULD TRY TO 
EXPLAIN THE CONCEPT IN THEIR MEETING WITH MUBARAK LATER IN 
THE DAY. 
 
¶13.   U/S DOBRIANSKY CONCLUDED THE MEETING BY NOTING HER 
APPRECIATION FOR ITALY'S HELP AND WILLINGNESS TO TAKE A STAND 
ON ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE U.S. 
 
 
SEMBLER 
 
 
SVC FOR MISSING NOFORN PARA'S AND PARA 13 MISSING MARKING 
 
ROME 00001050  002.2 OF 002 
 
¶Y.  THE FM CONCLUDED THAT 
    "I AM CONVINCED ON THIS ISSUE, WE MUST BE UNITED." 
 
ECOSOC 
 
¶10.   (S)   U/S DOBRIANSKY BROUGHT UP THE U.N. ECONOMIC AND 
SOCIAL COUNCIL, AND STATED THAT WE WANTED TO ENCOURAGE 
DEMOCRATIC NATIONS TO PARTICIPATE AND STRATEGIZE WITH ITALY 
IN ACHIEVING THIS GOAL: WORKING IN ECOSOC TO ELECT MORE 
DEMOCRACIES TO THE CHR AND ECOSOC.  THE FM RESPONDED THAT "WE 
ARE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT SPREADING DEMOCRACY, SO WE CAN HELP." 
 
METHYL BROMIDE 
 
¶11.   (S)   U/S DOBRIANSKY BROUGHT UP THE TOPIC OF METHYL 
BROMIDE AND THE UPCOMING MEETING IN MONTREAL TO ADDRESS THE 
CRITICAL NEED OF AMERICAN AGRICULTURE TO TEMPORARILY SLOW THE 
PHASING OUT OF THIS CHEMICAL UNDER THE TERMS OF THE MONTREAL 
PROTOCOL.  THE U/S INDICATED THAT THE UNITED STATES SUPPORTS 
THE TECHNICAL COMMITTEE'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CRITICAL USE 
EXEMPTION OF 35  OF BASELINE LEVELS AND THAT THE UNITED 
STATES WOULD ALSO BE SUBMITTING A SUPPLEMENTAL REQUEST OF 2 
FOR 2005.  THE U/S EXPRESSED THAT THE UNITED STATES WOULD BE 
LOOKING TO HAVE PARTIES TO THE CONVENTION AGREE TO A 
MULTIYEAR APPROACH TO ESTABLISHING THE CRITICAL USE 
EXEMPTIONS.  THE FM WAS UNFAMILIAR WITH THE ISSUE, AND U/S 
DOBRIANSKY PROVIDED AN OVERVIEW.  SHE EXPLAINED THAT SHE 
WOULD DISCUSS IT WITH ITALIAN ENVIRONMENT MINISTER MATTEOLI, 
BUT THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT AND URGENT ENOUGH TO BRING IT TO 
HIS ATTENTION AS WELL.  THE FM SEEMED INTERESTED IN THE 
ISSUE, AND REQUESTED MORE DETAILS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. 
GME/EGYPTIAN RESISTANCE 

¶12.   (S)   AMBASSADOR SEMBLER BROUGHT UP RECENT DIFFERENCES 
THAT OCCURRED IN A MEETING IN CAIRO BETWEEN U/S GROSSMAN AND 
EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT MUBARAK OVER THE TOPIC OF THE GREATER 
MIDDLE EAST INITIATIVE.  THE AMBASSADOR NOTED THAT THE FM AND 
PM BERLUSCONI WERE SOON TO MEET WITH MUBARAK AND THAT HE 
HOPED THEY COULD HELP SMOOTH THINGS OVER.  FRATTINI WAS AWARE 
OF THE ISSUE AND NOTED THAT AN EGYPTIAN JOURNALIST RECENTLY 
ASKED HIM ABOUT "THE FAILURE OF UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN'S 
VISIT."  (FRATTINI ASKED THE JOURNALIST WHY HE CHARACTERIZED 
IT THAT WAY, TO WHICH THE JOURNALIST REPLIED THAT WAS THE 
GENERAL PERCEPTION IN EGYPT.)  U/S DOBRIANSKY NOTED THAT SOME 
IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAD THE PERCEPTION THAT THE INITIATIVE WAS 
SOMETHING BEING IMPOSED ON THEM, WHICH IS NOT TRUE.  RATHER, 
IT IS A WAY TO GET MIDDLE EASTERN COUNTRIES TO TAKE OWNERSHIP 
OF THE ISSUES AND ADDRESS THEM DIRECTLY, EXPLAINED U/S 
DOBRIANSKY.  THE FM REPLIED THAT ITALY SUPPORTS A 
CONSULTATIVE, NON-PATERNALISTIC APPROACH, AND WOULD TRY TO 
EXPLAIN THE CONCEPT IN THEIR MEETING WITH MUBARAK LATER IN 
THE DAY. 
 
¶13. (U) U/S DOBRIANSKY CONCLUDED THE MEETING BY NOTING HER 
APPRECIATION FOR ITALY'S HELP AND WILLINGNESS TO TAKE A STAND 
ON ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE U.S. 
 
SEMBLER 
 
NNNN 
 2004ROME01050 - Classification: SECRET