R 291255Z MAY 95
FM AMEMBASSY KHARTOUM
TO SECSTATE WASHDC 1455

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 KHARTOUM 002625 
 
 
E.O. DECL.: 05/29/2000 
TAGS: PREL SU US
SUBJECT:  A CONVERSATION WITH BASHIR 
 
¶1.  CONFIDENTIAL - ENTIRE TEXT. 
 
¶2.  PRESIDENT BASHIR AND I MET FOR OVER TWO HOURS AT HIS 
HOME SUNDAY NIGHT, MAY 28.  THE ONLY OTHER PERSON 
PRESENT WAS GENERAL FATIH IRWAH, WHOM BASHIR WANTS TO BE 
HIS AMBASSADOR IN WASHINGTON.  WHEN I NOTED THAT, EXCEPT 
FOR BRIEF ENCOUNTERS AT RECEPTIONS, IT HAD BEEN A YEAR 
AND A HALF SINCE OUR LAST MEETING, BASHIR REPLIED THAT 
DURING THAT TIME HE HAD NOT RECEIVED ANY REQUEST FROM ME 
FOR A MEETING.  I SAID I HAD TRIED AT LEAST TWICE TO GET 
AN APPOINTMENT.  HE DID NOT RESPOND WHEN I SAID THAT 
PERHAPS SOMEONE HAD NOT FORWARDED MY REQUESTS. 
 
¶3.  BASHIR SAID, WITH REGARD TO BILATERAL RELATIONS WITH 
THE U.S., "IT IS WE WHO FEEL BITTERNESS."  WHEN HIS 
REGIME CAME TO POWER BY OVERTHROWING A DEMOCRATICALLY 
ELECTED GOVERNMENT, "WE UNDERSTOOD 513" AND WHY IT 
REQUIRED A CESSATION OF ECONOMIC AID TO SUDAN. 
INDICATIVE OF THE MILITARY GOVERNMENT'S DESIRE FOR GOOD 
RELATIONS WITH WASHINGTON, THEY GAVE A CABINET JOB TO 
GENERAL HADI MAMOUN (FYI:  THE LATE MAJ. GEM. MOHAMMED 
AL-HADI MAMOUN AL-MARDI.  END FYI.), WHO THEY KNEW HAD A 
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CIA.  HE BECAME A MINISTER "EVEN 
THOUGH SOME COMPLAINED."  WITH BASHIR'S APPROVAL, 
GENERAL MAMOUN MAINTAINED HIS TIES WITH THE STATION 
CHIEF, AT ONE POINT FLYING TO EUROPE TO MEET WITH HIM 
THERE. 
 
¶4.  BUT, BASHIR SAID, "THE U.S. ATTITUDE CONTINUALLY 
ACCELERATED AGAINST US."  HE HAD THOUGHT THAT MY ARRIVAL 
MIGHT MEAN A "NEW BEGINNING TO RECONSTRUCT RELATIONS." 
BUT INSTEAD THEY WORSENED.  HE CLAIMED THAT THE GOS HAD 
TRIED TO GIVE US FACTS ABOUT "THE JUBA INCIDENT" (I.E., 
IN 1992 WHEN USAID FSNS WERE EXECUTED, BUT WASHINGTON 
ONLY BECAME MORE NEGATIVE.  HE CITED "THE U.S. CAMPAIGN 
AGAINST US" AND STATED THAT IT STEMMED FROM "A HOSTILE 
ATTITUDE RATHER THAN A FACTUAL BASIS."  HE THEN MADE THE 
FAMILIAR COMPLAINT THAT THE U.S. HAS SINGLED OUT SUDAN 
FOR CENSURE ON HUMAN RIGHTS WHILE SOFT-PEDALING 
COMPLAINTS ABOUT OTHER COUNTRIES, LIKE EGYPT, SAUDI 
ARABIA AND "YOUR FRIEND MUSEVENI." 
 
¶5.  TURNING TO THE WAR IN THE SOUTH, BASHIR SAID HE HAD 
INHERITED IT FROM NIMEIRY AND SADIQ.  THE GOS HAD MADE 
CONCESSIONS THAT NO OTHER GOVERNMENT HAD MADE; IT HAS 
IMPLEMENTING A TRULY FEDERAL SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT AND 
WAS NOT APPLYING SHARIA IN THE SOUTH.  DESPITE THE 
"NEGATIVE MILITARY CONSEQUENCES" THE GOS GAVE APPROVAL 
TO OLS OPERATIONS IN THE SOUTH.  HE GRUMBLED THAT EVEN 
THOUGH THE SUDANESE ARMY HAS MADE GAINS AND CONTROLS 
NINETY PERCENT OF THE TERRITORY IN THE SOUTH, THE OLS 
CONTINUES TO SEND NINETY PERCENT OF RELIEF SUPPLIES TO 
SPLA-HELD TERRITORY.  THE OLS, HE CHARGED, IS FEEDING 
THE SPLA. 
 
¶6.  SUMMING UP, BASHIR SAID, "WHATEVER WE DO, THE 
OUTCOME IS MORE PRESSURE AND HOSTILITY" FROM 
WASHINGTON.  HE PROTESTED THAT "WE IN PRINCIPLE DO NOT 
HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST THE U.S.  WE WANT GOOD RELATIONS 
WITH THE U.S." 
 
¶7.  I INITIATED MY RESPONSE BY FIRST STRESSING THAT 
CONTRARY TO WHAT HIS GOVERNMENT AND TURABI SAY, THE USG 
IS NOT ANTI-ISLAMIC, AND I SPELLED OUT WHY MY ASSERTION 
HAS TRUE.  AS FOR WHY WE HAVE FOCUSED SO MUCH NEGATIVE 
ATTENTION ON SUDAN, I WENT THOUGH THE CUMULATIVE FACTORS 
THAT ACCOUNT FOR THIS, NOTING THAT I HAD EXPLAINED THIS 
TO HIM AND OTHERS HERE MANY TIMES.  ON HUMAN RIGHTS, I 
SAID IT DID SUDAN NO GOOD TO COMPARE ITS RECORD WITH 
OTHERS'.  SUDAN HAD TO OWN UP TO ITS PROBLEMS AND BEGIN 
TO ADDRESS THEM.  THE ARREST OF SADIQ AL-MAHDI AND SOME 
OF HIS FOLLOWERS SOLELY BECAUSE OF SADIQ'S RECENT PUBLIC 
CRITICISMS OF THE GOVERNMENT AND TURABI'S POPULAR 
ISLAMIC CONFERENCE HAS A CASE IN POINT. 
 
¶8.  I TOLD BASHIR AND FATIH THAT SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER 
IS A CAREFUL LAWYER WHO WOULD NOT TAKE A FAR-REACHING 
DECISION TO PLACE SUDAN ON THE LIST OF STATE SPONSORS OF 
TERRORISM UNLESS HE HAD A SOLID, FACTUAL BASIS FOR HIS 
ECISION.  I SAID IT HAS A FACT THAT THE PIJ, MAMAS, ABU 
NIDAL ORGANIZATION, HIZBALLAH, GAMAA ISLAMIA AND OTHER 
TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS HAVE OFFICES IN KHARTOUM AND 
INTERACT WITH ELEMENTS OF BASHIR'S GOVERNMENT.  IN 
RECENT MONTHS TWO SHIPMENTS OF ARMS FROM THE IRANIANS TO 
THE FIS HAD PASSED THROUGH SUDAN.  THE IRANIANS HERE 
HAVE DEALINGS WITH TERRORISTS, I ADDED. 
 
¶9.  I DEFENDED THE OLS OPERATIONS, STATING THAT THE UN 
IS NEUTRAL AND ENDEAVORING ONLY TO RELIEVE THE SUFFERING 
OF THE PEOPLE AFFECTED BY THE WAR.  THE DISTRIBUTION OF 
FOOD HAS MADE SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF ON-THE-SPOT 
ASSESSMENTS OF THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE.  THE 
DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF FOOD THAT GOES TO SPLA-HELD 
TERRITORY IS ACCOUNTED FOR BY THE HUGE NUMBER OF 
DISPLACED SOUTHERNERS THERE, TENS OF THOUSANDS AT LABONE 
FOR EXAMPLE, AS OPPOSED TO RELATIVELY FEW CIVILIANS IN 
THE TOWNS HELD BY THE GOVERNMENT. 
 
¶10.  BASHIR DEFENDED THE DETENTION OF SADIQ.  ASKING 
RHETORICALLY WHETHER I HAD HEARD OF BRIGADIER ABDULAZIZ 
KHALID AND HIS "ALLIANCE FORCES," HE SAID SADIQ AND 
OTHERS IN THE UMMA LEADERSHIP HAD SIGNED THE 
PROCLAMATION CALLING FOR ACTS OF SABOTAGE AGAINST THE 
REGIME.  AND IN HIS SERMON AT THE ANSAR MOSQUE TWO WEEKS 
AGO, SADIQ HAD ENDORSED THE SPILLING OF BLOOD.  I 
REPLIED THAT IF SADIQ HAD COMMITTED A CRIME UNDER 
SUDANESE LAW, HE SHOULD BE CHARGED AND TRIED IN A COURT 
OF LAW.  FATIH SAID THAT SADIQ IS BEING HANDLED IN 
CONFORMACE WITH THE LAW, WHICH ALLOWS PERSONS TO BE HELD 
WITHOUT CHARGE WHILE EVIDENCE IS BEING GATHERED. 
 
¶11.  BASHIR DENIED THAT ANY OF THE ORGANIZATIONS I 
MENTIONED, EXCEPT FOR HAMAS, HAVE OFFICES HERE.  HE SAID 
THE ABU NIDAL ORGANIZATION HAD REQUESTED THIS PRIVILEGE 
BUT HAD BEEN TURNED DOWN.  THE GOS ALSO HAD DENIED A 
SIMILAR REQUEST BY THE ARMED JIBRIL ORGANIZATION. 
HIZBALLAH HAS OFFICES AND PEOPLE IN OTHER CITIES AND 
DOES NOT NEED ONE HERE.  THE GOS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 
GAMIAT ISLAMIYA.  SUDAN DOES NOT CONSIDER MAMAS TO BE A 
TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.  IT HAS COMMITTED NO ACTS OF 
VIOLENCE OUTSIDE THE "OCCUPIED TERRITORIES," HE 
ASSERTED.  LATER, I MENTIONED SOME SPECIFIC CONCERNS 
THAT I HAVE ABOUT THE TERRORIST PRESENCE IN KHARTOUM 
(SEPTEL). 
 
¶12.  BASHIR BROUGHT UP HIS APPOINTMENT OF FATIH TO BE 
AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.  HE SAID "THIS APPOINTMENT IS MY 
APPOINTMENT," NOT THE FOREIGN MINISTER'S OR ANYONE 
ELSE'S.  FATIH WOULD "CARRY MY PERSONAL VIEW, 
ACCURATELY, IN MY NAME" AND WOULD "REPORT BACK HONESTLY 
AND ACCURATELY."  HE SAID THIS PROVED THAT HE WANTS "A 
DIRECT LINK TO WASHINGTON," NOT ONE HAMPERED BY A 
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS. 
(ADDITIONAL DETAILS ON THIS TOPIC BY SEPTEL IN AGREMENT 
CHANNEL.) 
 
¶13.  WE ALSO DISCUSSED THE PEACE PROCESS.  I WILL REPORT 
ON THIS ASPECT IN A SEPTEL THAT WILL HAVE WIDER 
DISTRIBUTION THAN THIS CABLE'S. 
 
¶14.  COMMENT:  EXCEPT FOR BRIEF MOMENTS, THE 
MEETING WAS VERY AMICABLE.  I AM CONVINCED THAT BASHIR 
REALLY DOES WANT BETTER RELATIONS WITH THE U.S., BUT WE 
SIMPLY HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO GET THROUGH TO HIM THAT OUR 
QUARRELS WITH HIS REGIME ARE BASED ON VALID CONCERNS. 
HE SAYS HE KNOWS THAT I AM BEING HONEST WITH HIM AND 
SEEMS TO APPRECIATE THAT.  NEVERTHELESS HE EITHER IS 
POORLY INFORMED ABOUT SUCH THINGS AS THE OFFICES THAT 
TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS DO INDEED HAVE HERE, OR HE IS 
BEING DISINGENUOUS.  WE AGREED THAT WE NEED TO TRY A NEW 
TACK IN TRYING TO OVERCOME THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE 
U.S. AND SUDAN AND THAT WE WILL DISCUSS THIS AGAIN. 
 
 
PETTERSON