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UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 05 MOSCOW 001612 
 
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TBIO, CVIS, RS 
SUBJECT: DOE DEPUTY SECRETARY PONEMAN'S MEETING WITH 
RUSSIAN MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND SCIENCE FURSENKO ON 
BILATERAL ENERGY AND SCIENCE COOPERATION 
 
MOSCOW 00001612  001.2 OF 005 
 
 
¶1. (SBU) SUMMARY. DOE Deputy Secretary of Energy Poneman and 
Ambassador Beyrle met with Russian Federation Minister of 
Education and Science (MES) Andrey Fursenko on June 10, 2009, 
in Moscow to discuss future DOE-MES cooperation in energy 
efficiency, carbon capture and sequestration, and 
nanotechnology.  Ambassador Beyrle reinforced the energy 
cooperation message and offered two additional opportunities 
for future scientific cooperation including the upcoming 50th 
anniversary of Russian Academy of Science and United States 
National Academy of Science cooperation in Moscow on June 17, 
2009 and President Obama,s Moscow visit in early July, 2009. 
 Fursenko concurred with the need for increased cooperation 
and raised three potential areas of cooperation: exchanges of 
energy efficiency expertise between American companies and 
Russian cities, nanotechnology, and Russian and American 
university partnerships. END SUMMARY. 
 
¶2.  (SBU) Fursenko recalled other DOE officials with whom he 
has worked and noted that he had met previously with 
Secretary Chu in Okinawa in his capacity as a Nobel Prize 
winner.  Fursenko, who conducted the meeting in English, 
seemed relaxed and happy to be meeting with Poneman and 
offered to discuss science and energy issues.  He informed 
Poneman that he would prefer to listen to Poneman on where 
the U.S. and Russia could work together because Poneman comes 
to the job fresh.  (Embassy Comment:  This openness is a 
marked departure from MES's previous behavior since September 
when Fursenko's staff repeatedly declined to schedule an 
introductory meeting with the Ambassador.  End comment.)  He 
was flanked by MES Head of International Relations Department 
Vladislav Nichkov, and MES Head of the International 
Relations Department's Bilateral Section Konstantin Chinkov. 
Fursenko was pleased to hear from Poneman that Secretary Chu 
is looking forward to a future meeting in Russia or the U.S.. 
 
 
----------------- 
ENERGY EFFICIENCY 
----------------- 
¶3. (SBU) Fursenko recalled the helpful, informal discussion 
on climate change at the most recent Carnegie ministers' 
meeting.  He posited that the U.S. and Russian positions on 
climate change are closer to each other than those of Japan 
and the European Union.  He called climate change a 
complicated problem requiring a dispassionate study of 
empirical data to track hundred-year trends, rather than 
emotional talk about melting Arctic ice. He immediately added 
that the Russian Federation needs to work on the science to 
seize any opportunity to minimize loss of heat and carbon 
dioxide emissions and to strive for energy efficiency. 
Arguing that focusing on technology can compensate for future 
resources limitations, he pointed out that the political 
decision is important, as Sr. David King, a senior British 
climate change specialist has shown by demonstrating 
technology can improve the environment without worsening the 
economic situation.  Fursenko stated that such new technology 
was his responsibility and he proposed starting joint work on 
energy-efficient lighting in buildings and more efficient 
fuels such as bio and hydrogen fuel.  Fursenko stated that 
MES, and FASI in particular, had had some cooperation with 
U.S. institutions on carbon sequestration projects, but we 
have to develop these projects further.  MES's goal is not to 
interfere with Russian scientists.  MES recognizes that 
Russia needs to evaluate its own efficiency, because 
according to OECD measures, the energy expenditure in Russia 
for one GDP unit is fifteen times more expensive than Japan 
and five times more expensive than the United States.  But 
Fursenko hastened to point out that this is not Russia's 
fault because its GDP is based on manufacturing and raw 
materials.  He suggested that the U.S. and Russia join forces 
to study, consult, and then explain to the international 
community the reasons behind for the differences. 
 
¶4. (SBU) Concurring with Fursenko's mention of building 
efficiency, Poneman explained that 40 percent of U.S. 
greenhouse gas emissions comes from buildings and that modest 
investments in such areas as insulation can reap immediate 
energy savings. Poneman commented that it would be useful for 
U.S. and Russian experts, perhaps from the U.S. National 
 
MOSCOW 00001612  002.2 OF 005 
 
 
Academies and Russian Academy of Sciences, to meet in the 
near future to identify needs and technological capabilities, 
possibly by creating sister city relationships.  Poneman told 
Fursenko that the U.S. National Security Council desires 
practical Presidential Summit deliverables to implement 
President Medvedev and President Obama's joint statement on 
April 1 in London.  Offering Fursenko a list of proposed, 
concrete areas for joint work (attached at the end of this 
cable), Poneman expressed DOE's and other U.S. government 
agencies' preparedness to work with MES to identify areas of 
scientific expertise and to define concrete ways to work 
together in the near term. Poneman specifically mentioned 
energy efficiency, carbon capture and sequestration, 
nanotechnology, and research in energy related fields as 
potential areas of cooperation. 
 
------------------------------------------- 
NEED TO SHOW CONCRETE FOUNDATION FOR SUMMIT 
------------------------------------------- 
 
¶5. (SBU) Fursenko repeated that Russia has no choice but to 
find a way to save energy in buildings.  Prices are rising 
for heat and electricity.  But if proper technology is 
installed, prices won't increase even though the city and 
government will need to find a way to pay for the investment 
in technology.  Fursenko suggested three concrete projects. 
First, he recalled that when he was Deputy Minister of 
Industry, Science and Technology, he had pushed an important 
bilateral energy efficiency project with the U.S. company 
Emerson in the city of Chelyabinsk that both saved consumers 
money and addressed climate change.  Second, he proposed 
working on with the Kurchatov Institute on new energy through 
nanotechnology and basic research under ITER.  Third, 
Fursenko pointed to Russian and American university 
partnerships like that between the University of Texas and 
Moscow,s Engineering and Physics Institute (MEPhI) that 
train people and increase scientific research, particularly 
if they are focused on energy, environment, and climate 
change.  Fursenko concluded that it is important to show a 
concrete foundation for the next meeting of the Presidents. 
But he recalled that he discussed with former science advisor 
Marburger, his co-chair of the Joint Science and Technology 
Committee, that the U.S. and Russia have very different 
systems.  Russia, like the European Commission, can direct 
that institutes cooperate - the United States cannot.  The 
United States focuses instead on scientist-to-scientist 
exchanges.  Nonetheless, both sides have potential partners 
whom they can agree should be ordered to prepare some 
cooperation in time for the July summit. 
 
--------------------------------- 
SEIZE WINDOW NOW TO MAKE PROGRESS 
--------------------------------- 
¶6. (SBU) Ambassador Beyrle stated that current 
government-government science cooperation between our two 
nations is weak and was stronger ten years ago.  He stressed 
that Russia and the United States have two opportunities to 
move beyond a general wish for more cooperation to concrete 
action.  The first is the June 17-18 50th anniversary of 
cooperation between Russian Academy of Sciences and United 
States National Academies when the academies will brainstorm 
on concrete tasks.  The second is President Obama,s Moscow 
visit in early July 2009 during which the Joint Science and 
Technology Committee could once again become one of the 
subgroups under a binational commission.  This committee 
would develop mechanisms to implement concrete ideas on how 
to improve energy efficiency and increase cooperation in 
education and science.  Russia has much to teach the U.S. in 
science education, the Ambassador continued.  It would be 
wonderful to bring the top 500 Russian science students to 
science summer camps in the United States, but we would need 
Fursenko's help.  Happily, the academies and the joint 
science and technology committee will tell us what to do. 
 
¶7.  (SBU) Poneman echoed Ambassador Beyrle,s remarks, noting 
that our two governments have a short window of opportunity 
to take advantage of the direct benefits of working together 
and that we need to act now to ensure that the strong 
foundation is reinforced by concrete accomplishments.  This 
 
MOSCOW 00001612  003.2 OF 005 
 
 
way the foundation will hold up even when the inevitable 
problems arise.  Fursenko agreed that both countries need to 
use the opportunity of the summit to find a way to turn 
proposals into concrete actions.  Both sides have homework 
and should propose concrete ideas that could be mentioned by 
the presidents.  Poneman commented that bringing in the 
private sector is important so that technology can be 
smoothly transferred and its effect amplified.  Fursenko 
concurred that this is very important, adding that he works 
closely on energy efficiency with Rosatom's Director General 
Kiriyenko and Minister of Energy Shmatko, with whom he 
interacts outside of formal government meetings, which 
facilitates things.  Once there is industry demand to save 
energy, Fursenko said, the Russian government can study the 
science on how to save energy.  Poneman replied that 
Secretary Chu is committed to removing the stovepipes that 
separate science and industry. 
 
¶8.  (SBU) Ambassador Beyrle noted that administrative 
processing for Russian scientists to receive visas was 
recently shortened from 150 days to approximately 30 days and 
that most scientists would receive visas within 15 days. 
This should significantly enhance cooperative scientific 
partnerships.  Fursenko recalled that at a conference in 
Europe and another conference in Khanty-Mansiysk, he met with 
Americans of Russian origin from Minnesota and Salt Lake City 
who work in science and medicine.  Although they were not 
interested in moving back to Russia, they wanted to help 
develop Russian life sciences by inviting young Russians to 
the United States.  Fursenko promised to get their names to 
the Embassy.  He commented that this is in line with 
President Medvedev's instruction to cooperate with the 
Russian diaspora and he thinks Medvedev will be positive 
about it.  (Embassy Note:  Reaching out to the Russian 
diaspora was also an important part of Rusnano chairman 
Anatoliy Chubays's meetings in May in California.  End Note) 
The Ambassador noted that we still need to resolve the 
problem of taxation of grants, which the National Institutes 
of Health and CRDF are experiencing.  Fursenko cut the 
Ambassador off by waving a hand and brusquely interjected 
that he is not talking about U.S. money, but about a 
cooperative project in which each side would fund its own 
participants. 
 
--------------- 
ISTC IS A GYPSY 
--------------- 
 
¶9. (SBU) Poneman inquired about the future of the 
Moscow-based International Science and Technology Center 
(ISTC), which he recognized was created at an earlier phase 
in the bilateral relationship.  However, in the same spirit 
of cooperation, Poneman hoped that we could find a way to 
take its benefits and transform the center so that it could 
continue to play a useful role.  Introducing his comment with 
"Frankly speaking," Fursenko said that he had worked with the 
ISTC and it was not unlike a RAS institute that created a new 
lab to solve a specific problem.  When the problem is solved, 
it is like a suitcase without a handle.  "It's not easy to 
take it with you because it's so heavy, but it's a pity to 
leave it behind as well."  Fursenko continued that ISTC was 
created for a very concrete, serious purpose that is now 
mainly solved.  Although Rosatom and not MES is ISTC's main 
partner, ISTC needs to become a new institute or be used for 
an absolutely other purpose.  This is like the "unkind joke 
about a gypsy father who comes home from work to find his 
children all dirty and haggard. He asks himself, which one 
should I wash and which one should I burn?" Fursenko ended by 
saying that he thought it would be more efficient to build a 
new institution for this new purpose because it often takes 
more time and resources to transform an old organization to 
respond to a new purpose.  Poneman parried by noting that 
although he does not know the details, it seems likely to be 
less expensive to buy a new handle than a whole new suitcase. 
 Responding to Poneman's offer to solve this together, 
Fursenko proposed that the two sides conduct a Strengths, 
Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats (SWOT) analysis to 
determine what kind of an instrument is needed. 
 
 
MOSCOW 00001612  004.2 OF 005 
 
 
--------- 
HOME WORK 
--------- 
¶10. (SBU)  Poneman closed by reflecting that we have many 
ideas of how the presidents can showcase science when they 
meet.  This will demonstrate that our countries do not just 
talk together, but they work together.  Fursenko, recognizing 
that time was short, agreed to contact Russian Ambassador to 
the United States Kislyak, who has no reason to limit himself 
merely to weapons.  Education and science, Fursenko 
proclaimed, are key milestones for future development.  He 
had told Kislyak he was willing to go to the United States to 
meet with his counterparts there, or to invite them to 
Moscow.  The ball is now in the court of the RF Ministry of 
Education and Science, and Fursenko stated that he would 
forward future cooperative proposals via Post Moscow within 
the next few days.  In closing, Fursenko invited DOE 
Secretary Chu to visit Fursenko,s Ministry in Moscow and 
stated that he (Fursenko) desired to visit the U.S. for 
further cooperative discussions.  He had hoped to meet 
Science Advisor Holdren at the July Carnegie meeting, which 
Italy postponed until mid-November.  Russia will host the 
October meeting, before which Fursenko hopes he will have met 
with his partners. 
 
¶11. (SBU) Deputy Secretary Poneman has cleared on this cable. 
 
(SBU) ATTACHMENT 
 
Potential Areas for Energy and Climate Change Cooperation 
(non-paper) 
 
     Energy Efficiency. Share challenges and exchange best 
policy practice in developing building codes and other 
standards in the industrial and residential sectors, as well 
as training for energy audits. Exchange knowledge on how to 
improve energy conservation in federal buildings. Reach 
beyond Washington and Moscow to engage local governments 
through an Energy Efficiency Blueprint program between 
&twinned8 municipal governments, whereby experts in each 
locality pursue projects in parallel and exchange their 
experience and lessons learned. Exchange views on how best to 
advance energy efficiency through market practices. 
     Renewable Energy. Discuss ways to promote distributed 
generation of power from renewable energy sources in remote 
areas. Identify barriers to the development of wind power. 
Share expertise on the development of second-generation 
biofuels and explore options for developing sustainable woody 
biomass utilization (e.g., harvesting forest brush and 
debris) to provide carbon-neutral energy and decrease air 
pollution. Explore potential cooperation on solar, 
geothermal, and/or tidal energy. 
     Clean Energy Innovations. Pursue joint R&D activities 
between our scientific establishments. Partner with Russia on 
&clean-coal8 technology. Cooperate on developing 
technologies that will bridge the transition to a low-carbon 
economy, including carbon capture and storage. Jointly commit 
to active participation in the Carbon Sequestration 
Leadership Forum. Discuss possibility that Russia could host 
one of the 20 full-scale demonstration projects the G-8 
intends to launch by 2010. 
     Energy Investment Environment. Assess ways to implement 
the G-8,s St. Petersburg Energy Security Principles, 
developed under Russian leadership, to create open and 
transparent market conditions that attract private sector 
investment and competition into the global energy sector, 
including both the U.S. and Russian energy sectors. 
     Global Climate Change.  Share information on the U.S. 
government,s experience regulating SO2 and NOx through a cap 
and trade program, as Russia has signaled its intention to 
develop market mechanisms as part of its recent draft 
&climate doctrine.8  Explore possibilities for joint work 
to help developing countries meet mitigation and adaptation 
challenges. 
     Gas Flaring Reduction. Seek ways to advance efforts to 
reduce the volume of natural gas Russian oil producers flare 
each year, as this is the source of as much as 10 percent of 
Russia,s annual greenhouse-gas emissions and a significant 
source of air pollution. 
 
MOSCOW 00001612  005.2 OF 005 
 
 
     Oil and Gas System Efficiency.  Expand current 
bilateral efforts under the Methane to Markets Partnership 
and advance technical cooperation to improve efficiency in 
the oil and natural gas sectors to reduce leaks and losses of 
methane and increase natural gas sales. 
     Coal Mine Methane Capture and Utilization.  Advance 
ongoing efforts and cooperation under the Methane to Markets 
Partnership to recover and utilize coal mine methane as a 
clean energy source 
     Power Sector Infrastructure. Pursue collaboration on 
improving the efficiency of generation, transmission, and 
distribution sector operations, including improvements to 
power system stability and load management as well as 
efficiency gains through the implementation new grid 
technologies. 
     Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG). Discuss cooperation on the 
commercial development of additional LNG supplies including 
liquefaction facilities in Russia, particularly in the 
northern European portions of Russia, as one tool to pursue 
mutual goals in energy security and to increase market 
flexibility and diversity. 
     Arctic Cooperation. Jointly discuss ways to preserve 
the environment and protect indigenous populations while 
pursuing appropriate development in the Far North, in 
coordination with our joint membership and growing 
cooperation in the Arctic Council. 
     Data Exchange.  Periodically exchange analysis and 
projections of energy and electricity demand, production, and 
pricing. 
BEYRLE