VZCZCXRO7947
OO RUEHCHI RUEHCN RUEHDT RUEHHM
DE RUEHHI #0500/01 1530250
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
O 020250Z JUN 09
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 9690
INFO RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH 5889
RUEHZS/ASEAN COLLECTIVE

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 HANOI 000500 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS and DRL 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM PGOV PREL KIRF VM
 
SUBJECT: USCIRF Meets Imprisoned Dissidents Father Nguyen Van Ly and 
Nguyen Van Dai 
 
Ref A) 08 Hanoi 1144 Ref B) 08 Hanoi 286 
 
HANOI 00000500  001.2 OF 003 
 
 
¶1. (SBU) SUMMARY.  The U.S. Commission on International Religious 
Freedom delegation led by Vice Chairman Cromartie, accompanied by 
PolOff, met with two of Vietnam's most prominent political 
prisoners, dissident attorney Nguyen Van Dai and Father Nguyen Van 
Ly, on May 13 at Nam Ha Prison.  Both appeared healthy and described 
prison conditions not out of keeping with the norm in Vietnam.  Dai 
was in reasonably good spirits and said that he occupies his days 
with Bible study, exercise and English classes.  Father Ly also 
seemed in good spirits, despite the fact that he is kept separate 
from the general prison populace and has limited human interaction 
outside of his every-other-month meetings with family members.  Both 
prisoners have a Bible and an English dictionary and are able to 
pray freely.  They are allowed to read Communist Party newspapers 
and to watch several hours of television daily.  Characteristically 
defiant, Dai refuses to acknowledge guilt and blamed the GVN for 
breaking the law in jailing him.  Similarly, Father Ly insisted that 
he was a prisoner of conscience and said that Vietnam's laws did not 
meet international human rights standards; interestingly, he said 
that he no longer opposed reconciliation between Vietnam and the 
Vatican.  END SUMMARY. 
 
Nguyen Van Dai 
-------------- 
 
¶2.  (SBU) On May 13, the U.S. Commission on International Religious 
Freedom (USCIRF) delegation led by Vice Chairman Cromartie visited 
Nam Ha Prison (also referred to as Ba Sao Prison), a 3,000-inmate 
minimum security facility for political prisoners and others that 
have threatened "social disorder" or "national security" nestled in 
the limestone hills of Ha Nam province, to meet human rights 
attorney and Bloc 8406 activists Nguyen Van Dai and Father Nguyen 
Van Ly.  The USCIRF Commissioners met Dai and Father Ly in the 
general meeting room of the prison and in the presence of Prison 
Warden Duong Duc Thang and several of his deputies.  Dai appeared 
fit and responded to questions clearly and articulately.  During the 
25-minute meeting Dai affirmed that he is in good health and 
exercises at least three times a day.  The USCIRF delegation 
presented Dai a hymnal of religious songs at the request of his 
wife. 
 
¶3.  (SBU) Dai was somewhat tense at the beginning of the meeting but 
became more relaxed as the meeting progressed.  He highlighted the 
fact that he had plenty of time to pray, think and read the Bible 
that USCIRF had given him during their last visit in 2007. 
Responding to questions from the delegation, Dai noted that he lives 
with 60 other prisoners, 30 of whom are minorities from the Central 
Highlands.  Dai estimated that some 180 prisoners in his cell block 
were from the Central Highlands including some who were ordained as 
lay ministers prior to their convictions.  Dai noted that only he 
and Father Ly were allowed to have access to the Bible although 
there were no legal regulations prohibiting religious materials in 
the prison.  He said that had earlier recommended to prison 
officials that they allow every inmate access to a Bible and a 
Hymnal but had not yet received a response.  Prison Warden Duong Duc 
Thang responded that only two other inmates in the prison had 
requested religious materials and that they will look at each 
request on a case-by-case basis. 
 
¶4.  (SBU) The delegation asked whether Dai was aware that the United 
States government had raised his case directly at Vietnam's 
Universal Periodic Review (UPR) before the Human Rights Council in 
Geneva.  Dai responded that he knew the United States had 
specifically requested the release of himself, Father Ly and Le Thi 
Cong Nhan.  Dai thanked the United States, and the Department of 
State, the U.S. Congress and others, for assisting dissidents and 
pushing for human rights in Vietnam.  He thanked Ambassador Michalak 
for his visit in September 2008 (Ref A) and noted that he had not 
yet received a package with reading material for him sent by the 
Ambassador several months ago.  (Note: Per earlier agreement with 
the Ministry of Public Security, the Embassy delivered the reading 
material to the MFA, as instructed, but the package has not been 
forwarded to the prison.  End note.) Towards the end of the meeting, 
Prison Warden Thang objected to Dai's claims of innocence and 
laughed heartily at Dai's statement that the GVN is breaking the law 
by keeping him in prison.  Thang said that Dai does not qualify for 
early amnesty under GVN law because he denies his guilt and is 
therefore not "reformed." 
 
Father Nguyen Van Ly 
-------------------- 
 
¶5.  (SBU) Before the next meeting, Prison Warden Thang noted that 
this was Father Nguyen Van Ly's third time in Nam Ha Prison.  Thang 
asserted that Father Ly is kept separate from the general prison 
population because he is an "extremist" who has made no effort to 
 
HANOI 00000500  002.2 OF 003 
 
 
reform.  After being escorted into the meeting room, Father Ly 
talked almost non-stop for the one-hour meeting with USCIRF 
Commissioners.  He began by thanking President Obama, Secretary 
Clinton and USCIRF for their interest in his case.  He noted that in 
2001 he was invited to speak before a USCIRF hearing on human rights 
in Vietnam but was not allowed to travel by the GVN.  He 
subsequently sent testimony to both USCIRF and the U.S. Congress at 
their request in 2001.  Father Ly noted that this is his fifth time 
in prison and that he "feels at home here"; he stressed this point 
by saying that upon his most recent return he bowed down and kissed 
the ground of the prison.  Father Ly noted that he was last visited 
by Ambassador Michalak in March 2008 (Ref B).  He said that he 
spends his days in isolation in thoughtful prayer and is able to be 
a "better disciple" because he doesn't have to worry about other 
issues and is alone.  Father Ly said he prays for everyone including 
the GVN and other world leaders, both good and bad. 
 
¶6.  (SBU) Father Ly highlighted the fact that he is kept separate 
from the general prison population and has no interaction with other 
prisoners and only nominal interaction with prison guards.  He said 
that his cell is 16 meters square and that he also has a 16 meter 
square courtyard in front of his cell where he is able to spend his 
afternoon gardening.  He commented that he is currently growing over 
100 flowers which he joked is his contribution in the fight against 
global warming.  He said that while he is entitled to a one-hour 
visit every month by family the distance and expense of a monthly 
trip was too much for his relatives in Ho Chi Minh City.  As a 
result, his nieces and nephews rotate and visiting him every other 
month.  The USCIRF delegation presented Father Ly with a bilingual 
New Testament in both English and Vietnamese to assist him in his 
language studies. 
 
¶7.  (SBU) The delegation asked whether Father Ly was aware that the 
United States government had raised his case directly at Vietnam's 
UPR in Geneva and he responded that he was not aware of this.  He 
again thanked the United States for its constant consideration of 
his situation.  Father Ly said that he was aware that Vietnam and 
the Vatican had held their first Joint Working Group meeting on 
reestablishing relations in February and had decided that he did not 
want to be a hindrance in this effort.  "I am a small priest," he 
affirmed, noting that he had decided to be a "better prisoner" by 
agreeing to wear the stripped prison clothing and follow prison 
regulations.  Following his change in behavior three months ago, 
prison management returned Father Ly's Bible and also gave him a 
Vietnamese-English dictionary and access to Communist Party 
newspapers, The People (Nhan Dan) and The Law (Phap Luat).  He said 
that he is also allowed to watch several hours of television daily. 
 
 
¶8.  (SBU) Towards the end of the meeting, however, Father Ly became 
much more vocal in his criticisms, commenting that human rights do 
not exist in Vietnam.  He said that Vietnam's law did not meet 
international standards, in particular the International Convention 
on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and the UN Human Rights 
Declaration.  He forcefully insisted that he was a prisoner of 
conscience.  He said that the two biggest problems with the 
Vietnamese political system was its lack of a free press and 
independent political parties. 
 
¶9.  (SBU) Although originally informed that the meeting with Father 
Ly would only last 25 minutes, it stretched to a full hour.  Only 
after 50 minutes passed and Father Ly begin to more forcefully speak 
out against GVN policies did Prison Warden Thang and his deputies 
stand up and declare that the meeting was over.  At this point, 
Father Ly quickly told the delegation to ask him more questions. 
The conversation continued for about eight more minutes and at which 
point the delegation said their goodbyes.  A few moments after 
departing the meeting room, Father Ly returned saying he had to tell 
the delegation just one more thing.  He encouraged the United States 
to support the GVN in its legal case against the USG over Agent 
Orange and said it was the charitable thing to do. 
 
Background Information 
---------------------- 
 
¶10.  (SBU) Prominent members of the Bloc 8406 political movement, 
Father Nguyen Van Ly and attorney Nguyen Van Dai were convicted in 
March and May 2007 respectively under Article 88 of the criminal 
code, which bans "conducting propaganda against the Socialist 
Republic of Vietnam."  Father Ly was sentenced to eight years in 
prison, Dai to five.  Dai's sentence was later reduced by one year 
on appeal.  Father Ly is one of Vietnam's most famous dissidents and 
has spent collectively about 15 years in prison.  Upon his release 
in 2004, he was a founding member of Bloc 8406 and also a founder of 
the Vietnam Progressive Party.  Both Father Ly and Dai are 
recipients of Human Rights Watch's Hellman and Hammett award for 
writers under persecution.  Dai is also a founder of the Vietnam 
 
HANOI 00000500  003.2 OF 003 
 
 
Committee for Human Rights.  The United States has raised both 
individuals' cases repeatedly and at senior levels, including by 
Secretary Rice to FM Khiem during President Triet's July 2007 visit 
to Washington. 
 
¶11.  (U) The USCIRF delegation did not have an opportunity to clear 
this cable. 
 
Michalak