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UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 04 BRASILIA 000445 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PREL ETRD OREP KSUM SOCI BR CU VE IR
SUBJECT:  CODEL HOYER MEETING WITH PRESIDENT LULA 
 
¶1. (SBU) Summary.  In a rare meeting granted by President Lula to a 
US congressional delegation, President Lula told CoDel Hoyer April 8 
that he has high expectations of the Obama administration, sees a 
new era in U.S. relations with Latin America, and hopes for a 
positive gesture on Cuba at the Summit of the Americas.  Lula 
stressed the importance of direct leader involvement in the Doha 
Round to produce a successful outcome, urged the United States to 
begin a new relationship with Venezuela, and said he would go to 
Iran soon because Brazil sees value in dialogue with Iran and has 
political and economic interests there.  He urged the creation of a 
regular bilateral U.S.-Brazil congressional exchange, especially on 
energy.  He described a financial aid program for low-income college 
students.  Septels will report on other Codel meetings.  End 
summary 
 
Hoyer:  Brazil is important 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
¶2. (SBU) Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, Congresswoman Lucille 
Roybal-Allard, Congressman Elijah Cummings, Congressman Gregory 
Meeks, Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Congressman Adrian 
Smith, Congressman Gerry Connolly, Congressman Aaron Schock, 
staffers Mariah Sixkiller and Brian Diffell, Charge Lisa Kubiske, 
and Poloff (notetaker) met on April 8 with President Lula, who was 
accompanied by Foreign Policy Advisor Marco Aurelio Garcia, Deputy 
Foreign Policy Advisor Marcel Biato, and Foreign Policy Unit aide 
Elio Cardoso. 
 
¶3. (SBU) Congressman Hoyer told President Lula that the delegation 
had come to Brazil because of Brazil's extraordinary importance. 
Hoyer noted Lula's achievements as president, Brazil's hemispheric 
and global role, and its critical role in the G-20.   President 
Obama recognizes Brazil's importance: Lula was the first Latin 
American leader he met with, which was an important signal, and 
Brazil and the United States must be partners, Hoyer said. 
Presidents Obama and Lula, together with their colleagues, have an 
opportunity to confront major problems such as the economy, the 
environment, and hunger, Hoyer told the president, and thanked him 
for his role in the region. 
 
Lula: "New Era" in U.S.-Latin American Relations 
- - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
¶4.  (SBU) A wide-ranging conversation that was to have lasted 30 
minutes but stretched to 90 followed Hoyer's opening remarks, 
peppered with Lula's characteristic personal anecdotes and jokes. 
Lula opened by declaring, "I have a conviction - it is pure 
intuition - that Obama may set out a new era in U.S.-Latin American 
relations and U.S.-African relations."  He pointed to a time of 
opportunity for President Obama, saying the situation in the region 
is now "totally changed" from the past, when "mistaken policies in 
Latin America," armed struggles and other things that took place 
during the Cold War caused anti-Americanism in the region. 
 
Latin America Has Changed 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
¶5.  (SBU) Latin America has undergone a profound change, he 
explained, and credited the Sao Paulo Forum, founded in 1990 by the 
Workers' Party, as the starting point that brought regional leftist 
groups together and set them on a path of attaining power through 
peaceful political activity.  This mainstreaming has today borne 
fruit in the election of leftist leaders throughout the region, Lula 
said, including himself, Chilean President Michelle Bachelet and 
many others, and, most recently, Mauricio Funes of El Salvador.  He 
said all those who formerly professed mass struggle are organizing 
political parties today, concluding, "We proved that the easiest way 
to power was through elections." 
 
¶6.  (SBU) Lula said the inspiration for convening the Forum came 
after he had turned around his flagging presidential campaign in 
1989 and made it to the second round of the election.  "Never in 
Latin America had a lathe operator gotten so far," he told the 
visiting congressmen, "and because we had come out stronger, I 
decided to call in all the leftist parties from Latin America."  He 
noted that almost all of them have by now come into power.  Asked 
whether he was responsible for all this, Lula pointed at his foreign 
policy adviser, Marco Aurelio Garcia, and replied half-jokingly, 
"He, more than I." 
 
BRASILIA 00000445  002 OF 004 
 
 
 
¶7.  (SBU) Still, Lula said, the "prejudices" of the Cold War period 
persist, but personal relationships can solve problems that email 
and faxes cannot. Only personal chemistry can solve problems.  He 
said President Obama could do more than he was able to in six years, 
and he is already getting started. 
 
We are all interdependent 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
¶8.  (SBU) Congressman Hoyer observed that President Obama can 
benefit from Lula's experience and that one country alone can no 
longer stabilize the world.  Lula agreed and stated, "Today we all 
depend a little on China," half-jokingly recalling the amount of 
"Made in China" goods he has seen in U.S. stores.  "Trade has made 
us all more interdependent," he concluded. 
 
Relationship with Bush could not have been better 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
¶9.  (SBU) Lula said his relationship with President George W. Bush 
was very respectful and could not have been better.  He recalled 
their first meeting:  Bush was focused on Iraq, war, and 
overthrowing Saddam Hussein.  Lula replied, telling Bush his own war 
was not with Iraq, but with poverty and hunger.  At the time, Lula 
recalled, he was sure Iraq had no chemical weapons, and a senior 
Brazilian member of the weapons inspections team had been pulled out 
at U.S. insistence because he also believed there were no chemical 
weapons.  On the other hand, Lula observed, Saddam Hussein was a 
"madman who didn't have the courage to admit that he didn't have the 
weapons." 
 
Obama will be extraordinary 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
¶10.  (SBU) Returning to Obama, Lula said he believes U.S. foreign 
policy is becoming more proactive yet without being a "mere 
interference in other countries' affairs."  Obama will be 
extraordinary, in part for the things we share.  He can make a big 
difference, especially in relations with smaller countries.  Africa, 
for example, needs to develop or its rapidly increasing populations 
will emigrate to developed countries such as the United States. 
Lula said he believes leaders of developed countries need to visit 
Africa to understand its realities, noting that he has visited 23 
African countries. 
 
Lula to Obama: Use Political Capital to do the Necessary 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
¶11. (SBU) Politics is a perverse business, Lula explained, and one's 
fortunes rise and fall quickly, so Obama must use his political 
capital now to do what must be done.  Leaders, in his view, must 
become personally involved in the Doha Round, the G-8, the G-14, the 
G-20, and the Summit of the Americas in order to break free from the 
bureaucratic machinery of advisers and ministries and bring true 
advances.  He said he had warned Obama of the danger of "being 
swallowed by the machine," which he likened to Chaplin's "Modern 
Times." 
 
Doha Round 
- - - - - - 
 
¶12. (SBU) In reply to Congressman Meeks's question about the Doha 
Round, Lula said it was necessary to "take it back from technicians" 
and let the politicians take over to get beyond technical details 
and reach a decision at the political level.  He said he agreed with 
President Sarkozy's suggestion of a leaders' discussion at the G-8 
in Rome next June, was convinced that the United States did not have 
to give up anything to reach success and it would be good for the 
poorest countries. 
 
The Summit of the Americas...and Cuba, Venezuela 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
¶13.  (SBU) Asked about the upcoming Summit of the Americas, Lula 
noted that the declaration has already been completed.  Lula 
characterized the Summit as a leftover from the failed FTAA process 
and said both the Summit of the Americas and the Ibero-American 
Summit no longer have much meaning because they are so scripted. 
 
BRASILIA 00000445  003 OF 004 
 
 
The proof is that the economic crisis will not even be mentioned in 
Port of Spain. 
 
¶14.  (SBU) Cuba will be raised at the Summit of the Americas, but no 
one wants Obama to be embarrassed over Cuba, least of all the 
Cubans, Lula noted, because that would strengthen U.S. hardliners. 
Lula expects a peaceful summit without any verbal attacks on the 
President over Cuba.  There is hope in Latin America for a change in 
U.S. policy on Cuba; expectations are so high that if Obama is 
silent on Cuba at the SOA it will cause frustration.  Other leaders 
such as Calderon of Mexico, Preval of Haiti and Uribe of Colombia 
will make statements on Cuba.  "Let's break the taboo...We need to 
solve the problem with Cuba.  Let's establish a new U.S.-Cuban 
relationship," he proposed.  Obama should make a positive gesture 
towards Cuba such as allowing all American citizens to visit Cuba. 
(Note: Coincidentally, the CoDel's meeting came only hours after an 
unannounced meeting between Lula and Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno 
Rodriguez.  End note.) 
 
¶15.  (SBU) Asked whether Hugo Chavez would not attack Obama at the 
Summit, Lula said he thinks not.  He added that criticism and 
provocation of Chavez are not constructive and only strengthen 
Chavez.  In Lula's view, U.S.-Venezuelan relations are like "a fight 
between a husband and wife."  "The fight may have been pleasant for 
a while, but no longer is."  Obama can start a new relationship with 
Venezuela, and the U.S. and Venezuela should exchange ambassadors, 
Lula stated. 
 
Iran 
- - - 
 
¶16. (SBU) Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz urged Lula to "go 
slow" on Iran.  Lula replied that he regrets not having gone to Iran 
earlier because President Ahmadinejad needs to hear points of view 
other than those of Daniel Ortega and Hugo Chavez.  He is going to 
Iran (though probably not until after the elections there), he said, 
because Brazil has political and economic interests there and Iran 
is important to Brazil and important in the region.  Lula said 
Brazil has always had a good trade relationship with Iran, although 
greatly in Brazil's favor, and he would discuss nuclear energy with 
Iran.  (Note: Following the March visit of Iran's foreign minister 
to Brasilia, senior GOB officials have confirmed that a visit by 
Iranian President Ahmadinejad to Brazil is in the works, perhaps as 
early as May.  Brazilian engagement with Iran should be viewed in 
the context of Brazil's south-south diplomatic outreach, since in 
Lula's view there is value for Brazil in dialogue with Iran that 
goes beyond commercial interests.  Charge heard a similar view on 
April 8 from Ambassador Roberto Jaguaribe, Under Secretary for 
Political Affairs at the Ministry for External Relations, who 
emphasized the importance of direct dialogue with Iran, noting that 
"peripheral" countries should talk to and exchange information with 
each other directly and not through the United States or Europe 
(septel). End note.) 
 
Congressional Exchanges 
- - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
¶17.  (SBU) President Lula noted the absence of a strong relationship 
between our congresses and encouraged the U.S. members of congress 
to work toward the creation of a regular, institutionalized, 
bilateral congressional exchange.  He suggested energy as an 
appropriate focus.  Congressman Hoyer said he would follow up. 
 
¶18.  (U) Finally, Lula told the delegation about Pro-Uni (University 
for All Program), an educational initiative to help underprivileged 
students.  Lula explained that under Pro-Uni the GOB grants a tax 
exemption to private universities, which in turn contribute the 
value of the exemption to a scholarship fund for poor and black 
students in private universities.  Students must have attended a 
public school in order to receive benefits.  Lula said 56,000 
students from poor communities, 40% of them black, have graduated 
from colleges because of Pro-Uni, today 45% of students in private 
universities are black, and Pro-Uni represents a revolution for 
Brazil.  Congressman Hoyer replied that private universities in the 
United States are already tax exempt and the government assists low 
income students through the Pell Grant program, which has been 
expanded in recent years.  (Background note: Public universities in 
Brazil are free and admission is competitive.  Students who graduate 
from public high schools, which are generally inferior to private 
 
BRASILIA 00000445  004 OF 004 
 
 
schools, are less well prepared for the entrance exams than private 
school graduates.  As a result, public school graduates, who come 
from the poorest Brazilian families, are the least able to pay 
tuition, are disproportionately black and mulatto, but generally 
must attend private universities -- or no university -- while those 
whose families could afford private school attend tuition-free 
public universities.  Pro-Uni was designed to address this 
situation.  End background note.) 
 
¶19.  (SBU) Embassy Comment: Lula had not received a U.S. 
congressional delegation in at least three years, and his decision 
to receive the Hoyer delegation signals a greater receptiveness and 
more positive evaluation of the value of such contacts on the part 
of the Presidential Palace.  End Embassy comment. 
 
¶20. (U) The Hoyer delegation has cleared this message. 
 
SOBEL