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FM AMEMBASSY WELLINGTON
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RUEHMO/AMEMBASSY MOSCOW IMMEDIATE 0190
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RUEHVI/AMEMBASSY VIENNA IMMEDIATE 0062
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C O N F I D E N T I A L WELLINGTON 000341 
 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/ANP AND PM/WRA 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/16/2018 
TAGS: PARM PREL MARR NZ
SUBJECT: NEW ZEALAND AND CCW CLUSTER MUNITIONS NEGOTIATIONS 
 
REF: STATE 108303 
 
Classified By: Pol/Econ Counselor Margaret McKean, Reason: 1.4 (b) and 
(d) 
 
¶1.  (SBU)  On October 14, Pol/Econ Counselor met with Jillian 
Dempster, Deputy Director of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs 
and Trade's office for disarmament.  PE Counselor made the 
points in the reftel, focusing on whether or not New Zealand 
and other core Oslo Process supporters are willing to be 
flexible enough to see progress in the CCW forum.  She asked 
if achieving binding language on technical improvements would 
not constitute a small measure of progress that moves major 
suppliers in a positive direction and could be built upon in 
the future.  If the CCW cannot make progress on areas of 
mutual agreement that have some humanitarian benefit then the 
success of the CCW negotiation process looks doubtful, she 
added. 
 
¶2.  (SBU)  Dempster started out by acknowledging that the 
positions look very far apart going into the final 
negotiation week in November.  New Zealand would feel more 
confident if the Chair was working behind the scenes to try 
and reconcile the positions.  She placed a certain amount of 
the blame on the Chair, saying that NZ did not feel that the 
Chair was making much of an effort in that regard.  Dempster 
also said that she was disappointed in the level of 
consultation between the Chair and the various groups/states 
so far.  She specifically pointed out that NZ has a great 
deal of experience on working on the issue of definitions, 
and that the Chair has not incorporated some NZ positions. 
She allowed that some GNZ views may not be acceptable to all 
states, but New Zealand was still not happy with how the 
negotiations have gone so far. 
 
¶3.  (C)  New Zealand, said Dempster, believes that the CCW is 
still important and would like to see the CCW as 
complementary to the Oslo Treaty.  She also allowed there is 
benefit in having major suppliers such as Russia and China be 
part of something that is legally binding -- "but not at any 
price."  She added that NZ is not convinced Russia will see 
the CCW process as legally binding.  Moreover, she said that 
there is a risk of having two different legal instruments 
that could increase the ambiguities in international law and 
its application to cluster munitions.  She said that the CCW 
does not have to mirror the Oslo Treaty, but NZ worries about 
two sets of standards.  She added that NZ and other Oslo core 
group members are not the only ones in the CCW worried about 
dual standards. 
 
¶4.  (SBU)  The Chair's proposal as it stands will not achieve 
consensus, predicted Dempster.  She said New Zealand will be 
open minded going into the final week but there will be 
certain areas/issues (although she refused to be drawn out on 
specifics) that will require New Zealand's delegation to 
consult with Wellington and receive concurrence from 
government ministers, notably Minister for Disarmament Phil 
Goff. 
 
¶5.  (C)  Comment.  New Zealand's national election will take 
place on November 8, the day after the conclusion of the CCW 
negotiation round (November 3-7).  Goff and other government 
ministers will be on the campaign trail during that week and 
the New Zealand Geneva-based delegation's ability to consult 
with its political leadership will be limited.  Dempster did 
not sound optimistic at the prospect for success in Geneva 
nor did she signal any sense of urgency from New Zealand's 
standpoint.  It is unclear how much influence NGOs involved 
in the Oslo process are wielding on the CCW negotiations; 
Dempster noted several times during the discussion that she 
is in regular contact with NGOs in the lead up to the 
December signing of the Oslo Treaty.  End Comment. 
MCCORMICK