VZCZCXRO0413
RR RUEHAG RUEHAST RUEHDF RUEHHM RUEHIK RUEHLN RUEHLZ RUEHMA RUEHPB
RUEHPOD RUEHROV RUEHTM
DE RUEHBS #1685/01 3051547
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
R 311547Z OCT 08
FM USEU BRUSSELS
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC
INFO RUEHZN/ENVIRONMENT SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY COLLECTIVE
RUCNMEM/EU MEMBER STATES COLLECTIVE
RUEHAK/AMEMBASSY ANKARA
RUEHAH/AMEMBASSY ASHGABAT
RUEHTH/AMEMBASSY ATHENS
RUEHKB/AMEMBASSY BAKU
RUEHRO/AMEMBASSY ROME

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 06 BRUSSELS 001685 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: ECON EPET EUN
SUBJECT: DEPSEC KUPFER DISCUSSES EUROPEAN ENERGY SECURITY 
 
¶1.  (SBU) Summary.  On October 6-7, 2008 Acting Deputy 
Secretary of Energy Jeffrey Kupfer met with EU and industry 
officials to discuss developments in European energy security 
and also discussed a wide range of topics including climate 
change and energy research.  Research Commissioner Potocnik 
provided an overview of the current state of U.S.-EU 
Cooperation on energy research.  UK Perm Rep Darroch, 
provided the UK view on energy security, the EU internal 
market, and climate change.  Over lunch select Deputy Perm 
Reps expressed diverse views on energy security, climate 
change, and nuclear energy.  German Perm Rep Duckwitz gave 
the German view of energy security, with an emphasis on the 
importance of good relations with Russia.  Over dinner 
representatives from Nabucco partners RWE and OMV provide the 
industry view on how to move forward on transit negotiations 
with Turkey and lining up gas supplies for the project.  The 
Georgian and Azeri Ambassadors discussed the impact of the 
Russian invasion and Azerbaijan's desire to build a strategic 
connection with Europe.  Energy Commissioner Piebalgs 
discussed relations with Russia and the status of the Third 
Energy Package.  End Summary. 
 
¶2.  (SBU) On October 6-7, 2008 Acting Deputy Secretary of 
Energy Jeffrey Kupfer met with EU and industry officials to 
discuss developments in European energy security. 
 
Commissioner Potocnik 
--------------------- 
¶3.  (SBU) On October 6, DepSec Kupfer's first meeting was 
with Science and Research Commissioner Janez Potocnik 
(Slovenia).  Potocnik, whose desk is flanked by portraits of 
John Lennon and Bob Marley, said U.S.-EU S&T cooperation is 
going well, but added we have "no choice at the moment."  He 
said we must continue to deepen cooperation and increase 
funding.  Given the limited resources currently available, he 
stressed the need to coordinate global funding.  He noted 
that on carbon capture and storage (CCS) research, the EU is 
preparing to move forward.  The Deputy Secretary said that 
coordination is very important and agreed on the need to 
streamline efforts.  He said unlike the Commission, which 
receives funding under seven-year plans, the U.S. does not 
have such long-term initiatives.  Nevertheless, he expects 
funding will increase for R&D. 
 
UK Perm Rep 
----------- 
¶4.  (SBU) On October 6, DepSec Kupfer and Ambassador 
Silverberg met (for almost two hours) with Ambassador Kim 
Darroch, the UK Permanent Representative to the European 
Union.  Darroch spoke at length on his views on the internal 
market, opening the Southern Corridor, and the EU's climate 
change agenda.  Speaking on the French Presidency Darroch 
pointed out that most EU Presidencies have one or at most two 
major crises to deal with.  The French have had three: the 
Irish "No" vote on the Lisbon Treaty, Russia's invasion of 
Georgia, and the financial crisis.  These crises have 
derailed many of France's goals for its Presidency. 
 
¶5.  (SBU) On internal market reforms, Darroch said that the 
UK was not keen on giving the Commission a vote on the 
Gazprom clause as this is a matter of national sovereignty. 
Darroch believed that this would set a bad precedent.  The UK 
favors the Commission being able to advise, but not to block. 
 Darroch said that the Commission can't just decide to extend 
its powers into new areas; this would require the collective 
decision of the 27 member states.  It is a matter of 
principle.  Darroch characterized the Council version of the 
3rd Energy Package as the 60 percent solution.  Darroch 
believes that in ten year's time the European market will be 
unbundled one way or another. 
 
¶6.  (SBU) Darroch said that the Commission will present its 
Strategic Energy Review (SER) during the fist week of 
November.  He thinks that this will include some calls for EU 
money going into interconnections, especially building 
north-south links.  This will target the "energy islands" 
especially in the Baltic States.  The SER will also focus on 
energy diversification and supply diversification.  In this 
vein it will address both the Caspian region and pipelines 
from North Africa.  Darroch believes there will be contention 
amongst the big member states over the next Energy 
Commissioner. 
 
¶7.  (SBU) Turning to the Southern Corridor, DepSec Kupfer and 
Ambassador Silverberg stressed to Darroch that the EU needs 
 
BRUSSELS 00001685  002 OF 006 
 
 
to show a strong commitment toward Azerbaijan.  Darroch was 
open to the suggestion and noted that the first trip by the 
UK's new Climate and Energy Minister Ed Milliband should be 
to Azerbaijan.  Darroch agreed that there needs to be 
high-level engagement by the member states and that they 
should not leave this up to the Commission.  Darroch opined 
that one problem the EU has is with the EU's Nabucco 
Coordinator, Jozias Van Aartsen, whom Darroch said "hasn't 
left Holland."  Darroch hopes that one product of the SER 
will be to raise the profile for the Southern Corridor 
effort.  Darroch believes that the events in Georgia have 
transformed the debate on energy security. 
 
¶8.  (SBU) Darroch said that the Turks want all the gas and 
the problem is to convince them of the benefits of being a 
transit state.  Darroch believes the EU needs to engage 
Turkey along with the U.S..  The EU has some leverage with 
Turkey over accession.  The UK Minister will support Turkish 
accession, but  there is no consensus among the member 
states.  DepSec Kupfer queried about the possibility of 
aiding Turkey with its domestic gas needs by providing other 
alternatives such as nuclear and renewables.  Darroch 
responded that the EU was providing Turkey 2.5 billion euros 
in pre-accession aid and opined that some of this could be 
used for energy.  On opening the Energy Chapter with Turkey, 
Darroch said that the EU hopes to open at least two new 
chapters with the Turks under the French Presidency.  The UK 
is in favor of one of these chapters being the Energy 
Chapter, there is no reason not to do so despite opposition 
from the Cypriots. 
 
¶9.  (SBU) Darroch believes the financial crisis has created 
the worst possible back drop for doing the 2020 deal.  At the 
political level, EU governments are still saying they are 
going to stick to the targets.  If not for the financial 
crisis, Darroch believes the big issue for the EU would be 
energy security.  Darroch believes a major tool for meeting 
the 20 percent GHG reduction by 2020 goal will be auctioning 
of carbon credits.  Under this system industries will have to 
buy permits to emit carbon and the power sector will be 
covered 100 percent.  Steel will not be covered and the 
remaining sectors will be somewhere in the middle.  Darroch 
believes the power sector will be the main driver. 
 
¶10.  (SBU) On Carbon Leakage, Darroch said the EU will have 
to find a way to deal with the industries most open to 
international competition that would be rendered 
uncompetitive under the EU's carbon trading system.  Darroch 
believes the answer is to give these industries either very 
low priced or free carbon credits.  Establishing the criteria 
is the key and will determine where you draw the line. 
Darroch believes that once the Germans set the principal for 
a sector they will try to load everything into that sector. 
He believes there will be exceptions for industries such as 
steel, aluminum, and cement, but is uncertain how much 
further the exemptions should go. 
 
Lunch with Deputy Perm Reps 
--------------------------- 
¶11.  (SBU) On October 6, Ambassador Silverberg hosted a lunch 
for DepSec Kupfer with selected Deputy Perm Reps from Austria 
(Mr. Walter Grahammer), Bulgaria (Mr. Mario Milouchev), 
Greece (Ambassador Leonidas Rokanas), Romania (Mr. Marius 
Hirte), and The Netherlands (Mr. Peter Kok).  DepSec Kupfer 
emphasized the importance of diversifying energy supplies, 
both in terms of suppliers and supply routes and encouraged 
the EU to work to open the Southern Corridor.  The events in 
Georgia have brought this to the forefront.  The Deputy Perm 
Reps provided their views on energy security and Nabucco and 
launched into a broad ranging discussion which also covered 
climate change, renewables, and nuclear energy. 
 
¶12.  (SBU) Austrian Deputy Perm Rep Grahammer said the 
starting point for European energy policy was the 2006 
Ukraine-Russia crisis; since then energy has been a huge 
issue for the EU.  Romanian Deputy Perm Rep Hirte pointed out 
that the Council planned a political debate to guide the 
Commission in its Strategic Energy Review.  The question in 
Hirte's mind is how to determine which competencies the 
Community has and which are reserved to member states. 
Bulgarian Dep Perm Rep Milouchev said the Council is 
discussing some financing options for energy security, but it 
is still very vague.  The focus from the Council standpoint 
is on energy efficiency, emergency stocks, infrastructure, 
and external relations with Russia and third countries. 
 
BRUSSELS 00001685  003 OF 006 
 
 
Greek Dep Perm Rep Amb Rokanas opined that the EU 
relationship with Russia is complicated.  The EU Deputy Perm 
Reps have been engaged on the so called "Gazprom Clause" in 
the CoRepPer.   Russia is a strategic partner, but Russia 
wants absolute control of its own gas and Russia has used 
energy as a political weapon.  Nonetheless, Russia needs EU 
technology and investment.  The question for the EU is how to 
balance this dependence. 
 
¶13.  (SBU) On the question of how to move forward on Nabucco, 
Austrian Deputy Perm Rep Grahammer pointed out that there is 
a lot of division among member states about how to proceed. 
Grahammer believes Turkey is not the biggest problem.  The 
biggest challenge is the need to engage with Azerbaijan, as 
well as also Iran as potential sources.  Greek Dep Perm Rep 
Ambassador Rokanas said the biggest doubt over Nabucco is on 
how to fill it.  He said the picture is very complicated with 
Iran, Iraq, and Azerbaijan as potential suppliers.  Bulgarian 
Dep Perm Rep Milouchev said that Nabucco can't be filled with 
just Caspian gas and argued that they should source Iranian 
gas as well.  Bulgaria is very keen on Nabucco because it 
diversifies both routes and sources.  On opening the Energy 
Chapter with Turkey as a step forward in negotiations on 
Nabucco, Bulgarian Dep Perm Rep Milouchev said that it is 
more important to bring Turkey into the Energy Community. 
Ambassador Rokanas said that Greece wants Turkey in 
Community.  Austrian Deputy Perm Rep Grahammer opined that 
the problem some member states have with opening the Energy 
Chapter is that opening a chapter is the first step in 
closing it. 
 
¶14.  (SBU) Speaking about the EU's climate change goals, 
Dutch Deputy Perm Rep Kok said meeting these goals will 
require huge investment.  He believes pressure is mounting 
for passage of the Climate and Energy Package, but the 
package is very complicated.  On the question of whether or 
not the EU will change its renewable targets, Austrian Deputy 
Perm Rep Grahammer responded that if you change the targets 
you have to change everything.  The general view is the 
citizens want tough targets, the question is how to meet them 
and how much will be met through the use of clean development 
mechanisms (CDMs). 
 
¶15.  (SBU) Greek Dep Perm Rep Amb Rokanas pointed out that 
energy security can also come from renewables, because this 
translates into less dependence on imported gas.  Rokanas 
said there is a huge potential in Greece for wind power, 
solar, and geothermal.  Rokanas said that Greece is keeping 
an open mind on carbon capture and storage (CCS), but the 
technology is untested.  In Rokanas's mind, CCS has huge 
associated costs just to "sweep the problem under the rug" 
and questioned whether it wouldn't be better to invest in 
"real" renewables.  He said Greece is ready to explore the 
CCS option after they've seen the demonstration projects. 
Greece is not against CCS, they just need to see more proof 
that it will work.  Rokanas emphasized that there can be no 
global solution to climate change without the United States. 
 
¶16.  (SBU) The most lively discussion at the lunch centered 
around nuclear power.  Romanian Deputy Perm Rep Hirte said 
nuclear is the best solution for energy diversity, as Hirte 
sees it Romania has a choice between nuclear and greater 
dependence on Russian gas.  He also believes the EU's climate 
goals will result in a strong push for nuclear power.  Greek 
Deputy Perm Rep Amb Rokanas opined that the problem with 
nuclear addressing public opinion.  Hirte countered that 
people are mainly concerned over the cost of energy, not 
whether or not it comes from nuclear.  Hirte said that 
Romania has been working with a Canadian firm and wants to 
build two new nuclear units, but that the Canadians don't 
seem too excited about the prospect. 
 
¶17.  (SBU) Bulgarian Dep Perm Rep Milouchev, also sees no 
alternative to investing in nuclear power.  Milouchev pointed 
out that had to close one of its nuclear power plants under 
the terms of EU accession and decided to build a replacement 
plant.  He lamented the fact the only bidders for this plant 
were Russian and Czech (with Russian involvement).  Milouchev 
said Bulgaria is 100 percent dependent on Russian oil and 95 
percent dependent on Russian gas.  Bulgaria has a lot of 
lignite coal, but this causes emissions problems.  As such he 
sees the only way out as nuclear, or perhaps Nabucco. 
 
¶18.  (SBU) Greek Dep Perm Rep Amb Rokanas emphasized that for 
nuclear power is not an option for Greece.  Rokanas 
 
BRUSSELS 00001685  004 OF 006 
 
 
recognizes this is not a rational reaction but is due to 
perceived danger, emphasizing that nuclear power is a very 
sensitive issue in Greece.  Nonetheless, Rokanas acknowledged 
that there is discussion even in Greece about nuclear. 
 
German Perm Rep 
--------------- 
¶19.  (SBU) In a October 6 meeting, German Permanent 
Representative Edmund Duckwitz told DepSec Kupfer that 
Germany sees renewables as a very important aspect of energy 
security.  Duckwitz said Germany needs to diversify its 
energy supply as much as possible.  They are trying to find 
as many sources and routes for gas and oil as possible. 
Duckwitz said Germany is quite active even though his country 
does not get that much sun.  They are working on solar 
projects in Algeria and other countries as well.  Germany is 
also pushing wind energy.  Nuclear, Duckwitz said, is very 
delicate in Germany and opined that perhaps the next German 
government will have to reconsider this question. 
 
¶20.  (SBU) Turning to gas supply, Duckwitz said Germany is 
very much in favor of promoting the different gas pipeline 
projects: South Stream, Nabucco, and Nord Stream.  In the 
end, Duckwitz believes Germany will need them all.  Duckwitz 
said Nord Stream can offer better supply of gas to Germany, 
the UK, and The Netherlands.  Duckwitz understands the 
concerns of Germany's eastern neighbors (Poland) and said 
Germany had offered to give them a direct connection to the 
pipeline. He said Nord Stream still has a long way to go 
given the ongoing environmental discussions.  Asked if Nord 
Stream is a competitor to Nabucco, Duckwitz said he does not 
see any competition between them, reiterating that "we will 
need them all." He also said he believes that the resource 
base (from Russia and the Caspian region) is large enough to 
fill all the pipelines.  Duckwitz emphasized that Germany is 
a strong supporter of Nabucco and that Germany is hearing 
from private investors that all three projects are 
sustainable.  He also emphasized that there are major German 
companies involved in both Nord Stream (E.On) and Nabucco 
(RWE). 
 
¶21.  (SBU) On relations with Russia, Duckwitz said the 
financial crisis is having an influence on Russian behavior. 
He pointed to the fact that Russia is allowing EU observers 
in Georgia as a positive development.  He said he now sees 
more flexibility on the Russian side, because the financial 
crisis has underlined to the Russians how dependent they are 
on Europe.  Duckwitz emphasized that Russia needs investment 
and they are very interested in German technology.  He sees 
the relationship with Russia as one of interdependence. 
Duckwitz acknowledged there was a certain reluctance about 
investment in Russia after the events in Georgia, but 
believes that problem has been overcome.  He said that the 
interest of German companies in investing in Russia has not 
lessened.  Germany is the most important partner of Russia, 
and Duckwitz believes it will stay so. 
 
Nabucco Dinner 
-------------- 
¶22.  (SBU) DepSec Kupfer hosted a dinner October 6 for 
representatives from German RWE and Austrian OMV to seek 
their views on the Nabucco gas pipeline project.  Attending 
from RWE was Jeremy Ellis, Head of Business Development RWE 
Gas Midstream GmbH who drove in for the meeting from Germany. 
Representing OMV at the dinner were Mr. Johann Gallistl, 
Procurist of Nabucco Gas Pipeline Int'l GmbH and Managing 
Director of the National Nabucco Company Austria who flew in 
for the meeting and Mr. Stefan Pinter, OMV Director for EU 
Relations based in Brussels. 
 
¶23.  (SBU) OMV's Gallistl started off by giving an overview 
of current negotiations with Turkey.  Gallistl said that 
Turkey is now engaging and negotiating with the Nabucco 
partners.  Turkey continues to insist on a 15 percent 
lift-off right, but the producers don't want this.  Basically 
Turkey wants gas at a discount.  This will have to be settled 
in a separate arrangement.  They are negotiating on an 
inter-governmental agreement (IGA), which will set the terms 
and conditions for the entire pipeline.  They are also 
working on a Project Support Agreement (PA).  The IGA and PA 
will lock in all the transit countries.  Nabucco is working 
to come up with political and commercial solutions for 
Turkey's security of supply concerns.  RWE's Ellis said that 
Turkey is coming to realize that without Nabucco they loose. 
Nabucco would open up the door for further investment, create 
 
BRUSSELS 00001685  005 OF 006 
 
 
transparent pricing, and give greater liquidity to the gas 
market.  The question is how to divide up the Azeri volumes. 
Turkey wants 8 bcm from Azerbaijan.  Nabucco is arguing that 
they can give Turkey a security of supply call on Nabucco 
volumes allowing them to divert European bound gas to Turkey 
in the event of an emergency.  Ellis said that Turkey 
realizes the threat from South Stream is real.  This 
realization along with the events in Georgia brought Turkey 
to the negotiating table. 
 
¶24.  (SBU) Ellis emphasized that Nabucco needs a second gas 
supply source beyond Azerbaijan.  Gallistl pointed out 
Nabucco needs 15 bcm for sanctioning.  Azerbaijan can provide 
at most 8 bcm.  Ellis said that the 8 bcm from Azerbaijan 
would be enough to start Nabucco in 2013 but they would need 
additional volumes coming on-stream by 2017-2018.  RWE is 
very interested in Iraq as this potential second source, and 
Ellis asked the U.S. to consider accelerating gas development 
in Iraq by helping to provide some sort of umbrella for 
delivery risk.  On Turkmenistan, Ellis believes a 
trans-Caspian gas solution is necessary for Turkmenistan 
because it will keep all the buyers honest.  There needs to 
be heavy-weight consortium formed to push this idea forward, 
probably something involving companies from Germany, the 
U.S., OMV and Turkey.  Ellis believes that if they get 
Nabucco off the ground, the Russians will want to sell their 
gas through Nabucco because it will be cheaper than building 
South Stream. 
 
¶25.  (SBU) RWE is not concerned about funding for Nabucco. 
Ellis said that when the supply is settled and the transport 
contracts are in place, the funding will follow.  Ellis 
likened Nabucco to the movie "Field of Dreams" saying "If youQild it they will 
come." Ellis said Nabucco does not need EU 
or U.S funding.  He urged both to put their money to work on 
the supply issue.  He downplayed suggestions to help Turkey 
build nuclear power plants as a substitute for gas, pointing 
to what he called Turkey's "nuclear bidding fiasco."  Ellis 
said what Turkey needs is gas, not alternatives.  Ellis 
downplayed the usefulness of conferences and summits saying 
they take a lot of work, produce some nice conferences, and 
some pretty words, but words are not enough. 
 
¶26.  (SBU) Ellis said support from the EU Commission up until 
now has been worse than nothing, but opined that it is better 
now that Nabucco Coordinator Jozias Van Aartsen is otherwise 
occupied (as Mayor of The Hague).  Asked what kind of help 
the Nabucco partners would seek from Energy Commissioner 
Piebalgs, Ellis said that Piebalgs should focus on the supply 
picture.  The EU has neglected the Caspian and the Caspian 
producers are feeling isolated.  Ellis said that Piebalgs 
needs to go to Azerbaijan as soon as possible because 
President Aliyev is very nervous.  He also encouraged 
Piebalgs to work on supply solutions with Iraq.  On Turkey, 
Ellis said they are urging the EU to keep the pressure up on 
Turkey to deliver.  Ellis said the EU needs to back off from 
holding bilateral discussions on transit with Turkey (but 
without the Nabucco partners).  Ellis views this as a 
commercial issue and believes the Commission needs to back 
off.  His advice to the EU would be to keep the pressure on 
Turkey and wait for the call from the Nabucco partners once 
they have worked out the commercial details. 
 
Georgian and Azeri Ambassadors 
------------------------------ 
¶27. (SBU) On October 7 Ambassador Silverberg hosted a 
breakfast attended by Georgian Ambassador to the EU Salome 
Samadashvili and Azeri Ambassador to the EU Arif Mamedov. 
The American-educated Samadashvili said that Georgia has been 
trying to play the role of intermediary between Europe and 
Central Asia.  She said the Russian invasion was a wake-up 
call for Central Asian states, and she is not sure where they 
stand at this point.  Georgia wants to remain a transit 
country, but she questioned whether Central Asia could 
produce enough supplies to meet European demand.  Ironically, 
she said Russian gas flowed unhampered to Georgia throughout 
the invasion.  She believes Russian forces deliberately 
targeted the Baku-Supsa pipeline, noting there were 50 
craters around the pipeline and no other strategic assets in 
the area.  The Georgian government will now look to increase 
the use of renewables, particularly hydropower, to lessen 
dependency on Russia.  She said 45% of Georgia's electricity 
(and 100% of Abkhazia's) comes from hydropower.  DepSec 
Kupfer said the U.S. could help Georgia with renewables and 
energy efficiency and thanked Georgia for its role in 
 
BRUSSELS 00001685  006 OF 006 
 
 
interdicting nuclear smugglers. 
 
¶28. (SBU) Amb Mamedov said Azerbaijan is ready to play a role 
in transmitting gas to Europe, but there are a lot of borders 
to be crossed and prices need to be set between producer and 
consumer countries. When asked about TGI, he said he was all 
for "diversification," but indicated a preference for 
Nabucco.  Despite saying Nabucco was "too early or too late," 
he believes it is a good project, but it needs political 
support.  He said Shah Deniz II would have 11-13 BCM 
available for sale, but Nabucco needs at least 20-25 BCM to 
be commercially viable.  He said the only practical gas 
source for Nabucco is the Caspian Basin, but noted that the 
Europeans have not demonstrated a political commitment: 
"Europe talks about necessities and strategic importance, but 
it is not pushing for a deal."  He said senior EU officials 
need to resolve the issues with Turkey and "go to 
Turkmenistan as Putin has."  The distance between Azeri and 
Turkmen platforms in the Caspian Sea is only 60km.   "You do 
not need a pipeline" he said, "you can call this an 
interconnector."  Mamedov said Azerbaijan is in a delicate 
situation; Russian President Medvedev has offered to buy all 
available reserves.  It wants to sell gas to Europe, but it 
will not sacrifice its strategic relationship over transit 
issues or prices.  He added: "our neighbors are not Austria 
and Switzerland." 
 
Commissioner Piebalgs 
--------------------- 
¶29. (SBU) On October 7, Energy Commissioner Andris Piebalgs 
(Latvia) told the Ambassador and Deputy Secretary that he 
would be meeting with Russian officials in Paris on October 8 
under the rubric of the Permanent Partnership Council.  He 
said he did not expect any concrete outcomes - Russia sees 
the Commission as a nuisance and prefers to deal with member 
states - but that it was important to maintain dialogues 
following the invasion of Georgia.  Amb Silverberg noted that 
BP had recently made a big concession over TNK-BP and while 
Piebalgs said the outcome was "good," he noted it was "clear 
that the Russian government" was involved.  On Third Country 
clause, Piebalgs said he would have preferred to have 
decision-making authority, but said the mandatory consult 
with the Commission would be sufficient:  "It would be 
difficult for a member state to ignore the Commission's 
opinion."   He said EU efforts on renewables are progressing 
but said the issue of sustainability criteria for biofuels is 
still "messy."  DepSec Kupfer noted that the EU's proposed 
criteria have "gone too far" and encouraged a science-based 
approach. 
 
¶30.  DepSec Kupfer was not able to clear on this cable. 
 
Silverberg 
.