VZCZCXRO4238
PP RUEHHM
DE RUEHHI #0682/01 1610729
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
P 090729Z JUN 08
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 7976
INFO RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH 4827
RHEHNSC/NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASHINGTON DC

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 05 HANOI 000682 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/AWH AND DRL/IRF 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM KIRF PREL PGOV OTRA VM
 
SUBJECT: UNITED STATES AND VIETNAM HOLD ANNUAL HUMAN RIGHTS 
DIALOGUE 
 
REFS:  A) Hanoi 0569  B) Hanoi 0580 
 
 
SUMMARY 
------- 
 
¶1. (SBU) This year's Human Rights Dialogue was a candid and 
constructive exchange, with both sides vowing to move the bilateral 
relationship forward in the one arena where the USG and GVN continue 
to have serious differences.  The USG delegation, lead by DRL 
Assistant Secretary David Kramer, urged the GVN to make more 
concrete progress on rule of law, the release and treatment of 
persons of concern and freedom of the press and internet issues. 
The GVN delegation, led by Assistant Foreign Minister Doan Xuan 
Hung, noted that the Dialogue was well-timed before an expected 
visit to the U.S. by Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung.  AFM Hung 
welcomed the USG's offer of technical assistance for legal reform, 
agreed to consider certain prisoners eligible for release under 
amnesty and responded positively to the idea of having foreign media 
outlets apply for representative offices in Ho Chi Minh City. 
Certain aspects of the GVN's position on human rights were 
predictable, including their avowal that "there are no political 
prisoners, only lawbreakers" in detention and their assertion that 
all Vietnamese citizens enjoy freedom of speech and freedom of 
assembly, despite evidence to the contrary.  The GVN delegation also 
took the U.S. to task for its poverty rate, lack of health insurance 
for its citizens and lack of religious tolerance towards Muslims and 
other religious minorities.  End summary. 
 
A FRANK AND FRIENDLY EXCHANGE 
----------------------------- 
 
¶2. (SBU) A/S Kramer and AFM Hung both agreed to a frank and friendly 
exchange at the outset of the one-day May 29 Human Rights Dialogue 
at the Government Guest House in Hanoi.  A/S Kramer emphasized that 
concrete progress on human rights issues would further improve 
Vietnam's international image as its global profile grows, and 
strengthen Vietnam by allowing greater political and civic 
participation in addition to economic development.  AFM Hung 
affirmed the GVN's desire for an open discussion where neither 
delegation tried to "impose its views on the other side."  AFM Hung 
said improving the lives of Vietnam's citizens was the GVN's "top 
priority," noting Vietnam's progress in poverty reduction, 
achievement of the United Nations' Millennium Development Goals and 
the "promotion of democracy within the socialist context" evidenced 
through its grassroots democracy and administrative reform efforts. 
AFM Hung linked human rights to the widening spectrum of bilateral 
and multilateral issues Vietnam is now discussing with other 
nations, along with trade and investment, security and global health 
issues.  Measuring the expansion of U.S.-Vietnam relations in the 
number of U.S. delegations traveling in Vietnam, AFM Hung said that 
between 2004 and 2006, the GVN helped coordinate 73 Embassy trips 
and over one hundred Consulate General trips in more than fifty 
cities and provinces, including the Northwest, Central Highlands and 
Mekong Delta regions.  AFM Hung also affirmed that Vietnam wants to 
build better ties with Vietnamese citizens overseas and make it 
easier for them to return and contribute to the country's 
development.  Nevertheless, the GVN delegation made a point to 
criticize certain overseas Vietnamese groups, at one point citing 
the Viet Tan, which it claimed had "unobjective" and outdated 
viewpoints and sometimes hostile intentions towards the Hanoi 
regime. 
 
¶3. (SBU) AFM Hung said these visits had helped improve Vietnam's 
image in the U.S., and many of his American friends had told him 
they've seen improvements in areas like religious freedom.  AFM Hung 
said more visits will help counter the views of a few groups in the 
U.S. who "remain hostile and hold extremist views" towards the GVN 
and "pose a threat to the further development of our relationship." 
AFM Hung asked the U.S. not to support groups "conducting activities 
against the Vietnamese Government" like "the Degar Protestants and 
Viet Tan."  A/S Kramer said while the U.S. stood by the principles 
of free speech and free assembly, it did not support any group or 
individual whose aim was the overthrow the GVN.  A/S Kramer further 
clarified that meeting with dissidents did not equal support for 
their causes.  (Note: The MFA protested  a scheduled visit by A/S 
Kramer to meet with dissidents in Hanoi.  Though we were formally 
"discouraged" by the GVN, we faced no obstruction in holding this 
meeting, reported septel.  End note.) 
 
RULE OF LAW AND CRIMINAL CODE REFORM 
------------------------------------ 
 
¶4. (SBU) A/S Kramer kicked off the discussion on Rule of Law by 
suggesting several concrete steps Vietnam could take to demonstrate 
its commitment to legal reform, including bringing Vietnam's 
criminal code in conformity with international standards, supporting 
 
HANOI 00000682  002 OF 005 
 
 
rule of law reform as outlined by Senator Leahy, and ensuring due 
process in the court room.  A/S Kramer also called for a repeal of 
"catch-all" national security laws like Article 31, which have been 
used to deprive dissident defendants of legal representation, and 
Article 88, which prohibits "propagandizing against the State" and 
has been used to convict many members of pro-democracy groups such 
as Bloc 8406, the People's Democratic Party and other activist 
groups.  The Ambassador added it would be useful to have a clearer 
definition of "propaganda against the state." A/S Kramer said the 
arrest and conviction of Father Nguyen Van Ly, lawyers Le Thi Cong 
Nhan and Nguyen Van Dai and others had negatively impacted Vietnam's 
image in the world and restricted the rights of these individuals to 
peacefully discuss democratic and political reform. 
 
¶5. (SBU) Ministry of Public Security (MPS) Deputy Director Nguyen 
Thanh Son responded that the USG "lacked information" about groups 
like Bloc 8406 and asserted the "so-called peaceful activists" were 
"discontents" who attempted to incite civil disorder and "provoke 
the public."  Son said Vietnamese society has many channels to 
express opinions, including a Law on Public Complaints and 
Denunciations, which are "appropriate to the culture, tradition and 
customs of Vietnam."  But the expressions of groups like Bloc 8406 
"did not serve the national interest" because they only looked at 
"bad things" and did not recognize the GVN's progress or 
achievements.  Son said Bloc 8406's ultimate goal was to establish a 
political party in opposition to the Communist Party with support 
from "hostile foreign forces."  While A/S Kramer said he was "no 
expert" on Bloc 8406, he said he had a different understanding of 
their activities and also noted that, from the U.S. perspective, 
having more than one political party was "not a bad thing." 
 
¶6. (SBU) On specific legal reforms, Ministry of Justice Deputy 
Director Le Thanh Long agreed with the need to revise Vietnam's 
criminal code, noting that the first criminal code was written in 
1985 and the version currently in use was the fourth revision from 
¶1999.  Long said the GVN was undertaking "a careful study" before 
conducting further reforms in order to ensure the revised code would 
be based on "firm foundations."  The Ministry of Justice's strategic 
plan, set to be completed by 2020, aims to reduce penalties for 
certain crimes, increase fines (e.g., for IPR violations) and get 
rid of many "economic crimes."  Long said they would also reduce the 
number of crimes subject to the death penalty and revise penalty 
levels and crimes for juveniles in accordance with the UN Convention 
on Rights of the Child. 
 
¶7. (SBU) The Ambassador responded that he appreciated the 
information on specific legal reforms the GVN was currently 
undertaking and added that the USG stands ready to provide technical 
assistance for legal reform efforts, including accelerating a 
long-delayed project to establish a web portal posting all published 
decisions by the Supreme People's Court, a project that has been 
underway since 2005.  He added that it might be helpful to 
promulgate information about the various ways Vietnamese citizens 
could contact their government and lodge complaints, because given 
the number of land rights protesters that have gathered in Hanoi and 
Ho Chi Minh City over the past few years, citizens do not seem to be 
aware of these communications channels and these demonstrations are 
probably not the "channels" the GVN had in mind.  The Ambassador 
added that even if the means of communication and resolution process 
is not perfect, "people need to know there is a process" for lodging 
complaints. 
 
ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND CULTURAL RIGHTS 
------------------------------------ 
 
¶8. (SBU) MFA International Organizations (IO) Department Deputy 
Director Ms. Pham Thi Kim Anh led a GVN discussion on economic, 
social and cultural rights stating that human rights were comprised 
of two sets--socioeconomic and political.  Because Vietnam is a 
developing nation, she said, economic and social rights were their 
top priorities.  Reducing Vietnam's poverty rate from 50 to 14% and 
doubling living standards in the past decade stood out as 
achievements in this arena.  Ms. Anh noted that the number of 
doctors, nurses and hospitals in Vietnam was ten times higher in 
2005 than it was in 1945 (when Vietnam first declared its 
independence).  In contrast, Ms. Anh said poverty was on the rise in 
the U.S., with the 2007 census showing 36.5 million Americans living 
below the poverty line and 12 million children suffering from 
hunger.  She noted that 32 percent of Americans have no health 
insurance.  She also urged the USG to comply with its UN obligations 
by ratifying the International Convention on Economic Social and 
Cultural Rights. 
 
¶9. (SBU) A/S Kramer acknowledged the importance of socioeconomic 
rights but noted government accountability and transparency go 
hand-in-hand with these rights.  He pointed to the lively debate in 
the U.S. between presidential candidates on the issue of health 
 
HANOI 00000682  003 OF 005 
 
 
care.  These issues and others were a source of concern for many, 
and the U.S. Government's responsibility is openly discussed in the 
media and by the public.  The Ambassador added that if the GVN could 
provide expertise or technical assistance with America's health 
insurance policy, it would be most welcome.  The Ambassador also 
added that socioeconomic issues were a key point of discussion in 
the Consultative Group, a group of donor nations (including the 
United States and the EU) in Hanoi which meets periodically with the 
GVN to discuss and coordinate sustainable development assistance 
programs in Vietnam.  A/S Kramer said the U.S. had ratified a number 
of UN conventions, and asked about the possibility of having a 
senior UN official visit Vietnam.  Ms. Anh acknowledged plans to 
invite the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights this summer and the 
visit of a Special Rapporteur. 
 
PERSONS OF CONCERN 
------------------ 
 
¶10. (SBU) A/S Kramer noted that while the release of several 
prisoners in the last year is a good sign, other detainees and 
prisoners give us cause for concern.  A/S Kramer voiced USG support 
for anyone exercising their fundamental rights, but acknowledged 
that the GVN sees things differently.  Citing the serious tension in 
the bilateral relationship caused by these cases, A/S Kramer 
encouraged the GVN to take actions consistent with its UN 
commitments, highlighting that progress would send a positive signal 
for our relationship and improve Vietnam's international image. 
 
¶11. (SBU) Specifically, A/S Kramer requested positive action on a 
number of cases, including the release of high-profile prisoners 
such as Father Nguyen Van Ly and human rights lawyers Le Thi Cong 
Nhan and Nguyen Van Dai, and two Vietnamese journalists recently 
arrested in connection with reporting the PMU-18 corruption scandal 
(Ref. A).  In addition, A/S Kramer asked for U.S. access to Bui Kim 
Thanh (Ref. B), a democracy and labor activist recently recommitted 
to a mental institution on questionable grounds, in order to conduct 
the interviews and medical exam necessary to make a determination of 
eligibility for resettlement in the United States. 
 
¶12. (SBU) A/S Kramer went on to inform the GVN that cyber-dissident 
Pham Hong Son (currently under house arrest) had been selected for a 
National Endowment for Democracy (NED) fellowship.  Reminding the 
GVN of the negative fallout surrounding the return, arrest, and 
release of previous NED fellow Le Quoc Quan last year, Kramer urged 
the GVN to grant permission for Son to "participate without incident 
and return without fear," including obtaining a Vietnamese passport. 
 
 
¶13. (SBU) In response, AFM Hung declared, "there are no political 
prisoners in Vietnam", a point that A/S Kramer later highlighted by 
stating that he never used the word "political" when describing 
prisoners.  AFM Hung explained that the GVN does not detain or 
arrest people because of their opinions, but because they have 
violated the laws of Vietnam.  Regarding the specific cases raised 
by A/S Kramer, AFM Hung stated that Father Ly, Nguyen Van Dai, and 
Le Thi Cong Nhan will be seriously considered for amnesty on a 
humanitarian basis when appropriate.  He went on to agree that the 
GVN could facilitate the procedures for possible resettlement of Bui 
Kim Thanh after the GVN has fulfilled its responsibility to treat 
her health problems.  For Pham Hong Son, AFM Hung stated that he 
must serve out his probation period under house arrest but left open 
the possibility of him being allowed to participate in the 
fellowship. 
 
¶14. (SBU) AFM Hung then criticized the USG for requesting the 
release of the two Vietnamese journalists without seeking any 
information as to the reason why they were detained.  He also 
reminded the U.S. side that four people were detained, two 
government officials and the two journalists, lamenting that the 
public and international community are only focused on the 
journalists.  AFM Hung explained that the two journalists were 
detained and are under investigation because the GVN believes they 
violated the law by providing false information to and "provoking" 
the public and releasing state secrets, not because they reported on 
corruption.  He added that they "abused their positions."  A/S 
Kramer noted the importance of having a full investigation of the 
allegations under a system of due process.  He also raised the 
possibility that the reporters used the best information they had 
and did not intend to report false information, observing that these 
arrests may scare reporters away from reporting on sensitive issues 
like corruption. 
 
¶15. (SBU) MPS Deputy Director Son added that amnesty requests must 
be based on Vietnamese law, including an assessment of the 
prisoner's attitude toward rehabilitation.  After serving 
"two-thirds of their sentence" (Note.  We read the law as one-third 
of the sentence.  End note.) and with the proper attitude, a 
 
HANOI 00000682  004 OF 005 
 
 
prisoner's case goes to the Committee for Amnesty and Reduction in 
Penalty for consideration.  Regarding Le Thi Cong Nhan, Son raised 
the possibility of her resettlement to the United States, should the 
GVN grant her amnesty and release her from prison.  A/S Kramer noted 
that while the U.S. has no indication from Le Thi Cong Nhan that she 
is seeking resettlement in the U.S., her case could be reviewed if 
such a request was made. 
 
¶16. (SBU) Son also noted that the GVN does not want to amnesty 
prisoners on the basis of U.S. requests alone as it creates the 
impression of special treatment.  He complained that the U.S. does 
not give sufficient public recognition of GVN humanitarian efforts 
to grant amnesty to persons of concern.  A/S Kramer responded that 
the U.S. publicly recognizes GVN efforts in the annual Country 
Reports on Human Rights, as well as in regular consultations with 
Congress and others.  The Ambassador added that we struggle with 
what level of public credit we should give for GVN actions, as we 
try to respect GVN sensitivities while sharing our appreciation when 
appropriate. 
 
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AND TOLERANCE 
------------------------------- 
 
¶17. (SBU) A/S Kramer commended Vietnam for the real progress made on 
religious freedom in Vietnam, commenting that greater religious 
freedom promotes social stability and improves Vietnam's 
international image.  Religious groups in Vietnam widely report that 
freedom to exercise their faith has increased and incidents of abuse 
and harassment have decreased.  In the interest of promoting further 
progress, A/S Kramer raised several areas where more work remains to 
be done: 
 
- Increased pace of church registrations in the Northwest highlands, 
where some 1000 applications are still pending; 
- Greater education of the Vietnamese public and training for local 
officials about the GVN's legal framework on religion; 
- Improved response by the GVN to isolated incidents of abuses by 
officials; and 
- More attention to resolution of property claims raised by 
religious groups, possibly through the creation of a commission to 
address land issues. 
 
¶18. (SBU) Clearly pleased with U.S. recognition of Vietnam's 
progress on religious freedom and noting the recent growth in 
religious practice in Vietnam, AFM Hung acknowledged that the GVN 
must improve and expand training and education at local levels.  The 
Government Committee on Religious Affairs representative added that 
they will accept the offer of a U.S.-based NGO, the Institute for 
Global Engagement, to assist with training in the near future. 
 
¶19. (SBU) AFM Hung explained the complexity of land claims in 
Vietnam, noting that, given Vietnam's history and recent rapid 
development, the GVN must take many competing interests into account 
to resolve these issues in a satisfactory manner.  While the central 
government has a lead role, provincial and local authorities must 
also be consulted. 
 
¶20. (SBU) Turning to the issue of religious tolerance, Ms. Pham Thi 
Kim Anh, MFA IO Deputy Director, pointed out that religious 
tolerance must go hand in hand with religious freedom.  Referencing 
acts of discrimination against Muslims, including publishing of the 
"Danish cartoons," and passage of U.S. House of Representatives 
Resolution 847, "recognizing the importance of Christmas and the 
Christian faith," Ms. Anh urged the U.S. to pursue greater respect 
for cultural diversity and religious differences.  A/S Kramer agreed 
that more can always be done to improve tolerance, respect and 
understanding, highlighting President Bush's visit to a Washington, 
D.C. mosque shortly after the events of September 11, 2001, to 
demonstrate U.S. Government recognition that a vast majority of 
Muslims do not support violence and terrorism. 
 
FREEDOM OF THE PRESS AND THE INTERNET 
------------------------------------- 
 
¶21. (SBU) Stressing the importance of a free press, including 
protection of journalists and their sources, A/S Kramer noted the 
GVN could significantly improve freedom of the press and the 
internet by removing restrictions on internet use, providing access 
to currently censored websites, repealing the requirement for 
Internet cafe owners to register the personal information of 
computer users, releasing the two journalists who reported on the 
PMU-18 scandal, allowing foreign media offices to open up in Ho Chi 
Minh City, and passing the draft Law on Associations. 
 
¶22. (SBU) Mr. Le Nghiem, Director of the Department of Foreign 
Affairs Information in the Ministry of Information and 
Communication, highlighted recent developments in Vietnam, including 
 
HANOI 00000682  005 OF 005 
 
 
a significant increase in the number of news websites available in 
Vietnam.  He noted that western news sources (VOA, BBC, CNN, and 
Bloomberg) are now readily available in both English and Vietnamese, 
and the press increasingly contains differing viewpoints on 
government policies.  Nghiem went on to note that Vietnam now has 20 
million people with access to the internet or 24 percent of total 
population, and over one million bloggers online with no censorship 
from state. 
 
¶23. (SBU) While agreeing that internet access is important and often 
beneficial, Nghiem voiced concerns about the reliability of 
information on the Internet as well as "dangerous content" being 
harmful to the younger generation.  A/S Kramer explained that two 
things are illegal on the Internet in the United States - child 
pornography and, in some states, gambling.  He emphasized the 
individual's right to choose what to view online, and encouraged the 
GVN to take a similar, hands-off approach. 
 
¶24. (SBU) Regarding the ability of foreign press organizations to 
open offices in Vietnam, Mr. Dang Xuan Dung, Deputy Director, 
Department of Information and the Press, Ministry of Foreign 
Affairs, stated that the GVN works hard to facilitate press 
activities in Vietnam.  To date, Bloomberg is the only press 
organization to request an office in HCMC and the request was 
granted; others have not asked to open up HCMC offices, according to 
Dung.  He emphasized that international reporters are allowed to 
work in HCMC and agreed to facilitate future requests to grant 
permits for foreign journalists to work in HCMC and southern 
provinces, as well as any future requests from foreign press 
agencies to open and operate representative offices. 
 
CONCLUDING REMARKS 
------------------ 
 
¶25. (SBU) A/S Kramer noted that there is no reason why U.S.-Vietnam 
cooperation on human rights should not be as robust as our bilateral 
cooperation on other issues, such as HIV/AIDS, security, and the 
economy. 
 
¶26. (SBU) The Ambassador summed up the concrete results of the 
dialogue, noting the GVN's agreement to seriously consider requests 
on prisoners, the Ministry of Justice's agreement to work with the 
U.S. on rule of law projects, the MFA's agreement to facilitate the 
opening of foreign press offices in Ho Chi Minh City, and the 
commitment of both sides to promote religious freedom and tolerance. 
 
 
ALOISI