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FM AMEMBASSY LONDON
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 8024
INFO RUEHZL/EUROPEAN POLITICAL COLLECTIVE
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RUEHIL/AMEMBASSY ISLAMABAD 0783
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RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC
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RUEKJCS/JCS WASHDC
RUEATRS/DEPT OF TREASURY WASHDC
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C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 LONDON 000878 

SIPDIS 

NOFORN 
SIPDIS 

E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/25/2018 
TAGS: PREL PGOV PTER PHUM EFIN EAID UNSC IZ AF IS
IR, SU, UK 
SUBJECT: BROWN MEETS MCCAIN: DISCUSS IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, AND 

REFORM OF THE IFIS 

Classified By: Ambassador Robert H. Tuttle for reasons 1.4 (b,d) 

¶1. (C/NF) Summary: Prime Minister Gordon Brown met 
Senators John McCain, Joseph Lieberman and Lindsey Graham in 
London March 20. Brown used the meeting to present his big 
ideas about reforming the international financial 
institutions (IFIS) and increasing assistance to Africa as a 
means to prevent terrorism as well as counter China. McCain 
gave his assessment of current progress in Iraq and thanked 
Brown for showing political courage by keeping British troops 
in Basrah. McCain and the other Senators raised Israel, 
Iran, Afghanistan and climate change. Brown told McCain the 
UK will increase its nuclear energy capacity and discussed 
Iran in terms of Europe's management of its energy dependency 
on Russia. Brown heard that McCain is looking for an 
alternative to Guantanamo and McCain said U.S. personnel 
"will never torture another person in our custody again." 
The Senators and the Prime Minister discussed terrorism in 
Iraq and the UK, with Brown ending the meeting by emphasizing 
the need to win hearts and minds. The meeting took place in 
Brown's Cabinet Room, but the mood was informal. End 
Summary. 

Participants 
------------ 

¶2. (U) Prime Minister Gordon Brown met Senators McCain, 
Lieberman and Graham in his Cabinet Room. Seated around the 
table were Brown's advisors Simon McDonald, Stewart Wood and 
private secretary Tom Fletcher. The Senators were 
accompanied by Ambassador Tuttle, Senate staff Fontaine, 
Serchuk, Shuffield, poloff and military escort. 

McCain Thanks Brown for Standing Firm in Iraq 
--------------------------------------------- 

¶3. (C/NF) Senator McCain thanked Brown for British military 
participation in Iraq where, he said, "significant progress" 
has been made. McCain said "in Anbar, people are happy, the 
shops are open, they want to vote." McCain also thanked 
Brown for Britain's military commitment in Afghanistan, which 
he described as "difficult." McCain said he expected a 
battle in Mosul that would last months -- there would be 
casualties -- but it would not be like Falluja. He said Al 
Qaeda "thinks they can't succeed unless they take Baghdad," 
and he thought "Iran was going to become more involved, 
rather than less." He said there were 20,000 individuals 
detained in Camp Bucca and that the release process had to be 
started. McCain described the Maliki government as, overall, 
"weak," but it had improved; starting at a "one" on a 
one-to-ten scale, it now registers as a "four." McCain told 
Brown the American people "want us out, but see success." He 
added that what is being seen in Iraq is an increase in the 
number of suicide attacks by individuals while statistically 
the situation is getting better. McCain told Brown that 
Israel is getting ready to attack Hamas; he did not know 
when, but the attack "would be worse than the last time." 
McCain also thanked the Prime Minister for his leadership on 
climate change. 

Brown on Iraq 
------------- 

¶4. (C/NF) The Prime Minister described Britain's changed 
military role in Iraq, saying British forces had moved from 
being a combat force to working with Iraqi troops to improve 
their capabilities. Brown said the violence had diminshed in 
Basrah although the JAM and the Iranian were increasing their 
influence. The important element was providing the people 
hope for the future. It was important to "put an economic 
piece" in place, to give the populace an economic stake in 
the outcome. Also important was increasing the operational 
capacity of the police. Brown said the area has huge 
economic prospects and that economic development was key. 
This could be accomplished only by first training Iraqi 

LONDON 00000878 002 OF 003 


forces and holding local elections. 

Brown on Afghanistan 
-------------------- 

¶5. (C/NF) Brown said he was "worried that Karzai is not 
strong enough" and the government administration was weak. 
Forty-three countries are present in Afghanistan but NATO 
country participation is uneven, even though "everyone knows 
Afghanistan is the front line" for combating Al Qaeda. 

Brown's Big Ideas for the IFIS 
------------------------------ 

¶6. (C/NF) Suddenly becoming more engaged, the Prime Minister 
turned to his interest in reform of the international 
financial institutions (IFIS) and underscoring the importance 
of aid in world affairs. "If you are going to prescribe 
everything for countries, you have to provide economic 
assistance," said Brown. "The World Bank has become the 
World Bank for development," he said, "why not make it the 
bank for assistance and the environment?" Brown said 
putting,"the Bank at the center of the environment and not 
just development,"would be an "act of statesmanship." McCain 
told Brown that Senator Lieberman, together with Senator 
Warner, is working on new climate change legislation. 
Senator Lieberman said his bill contained a provision for 
grants to developing countries and he thought the President 
would sign it. Brown returned to his thesis on reforming the 
IFIS, noting two other reforms were necessary. He said the 
IMF was "almost irrelevant" and it had to take on a new role. 
He said the world needed an "early warning system" along the 
lines that Alan Greenspan had played for the U.S. If the IMF 
took on this role, mused Brown, people would have confidence. 
"Unless the IMF changes," said Brown, "it will become 
increasingly irrelevant at a time when financial markets are 
becoming more global." 

¶7. (C/NF) Brown launched into ideas about finding ways to 
"build failed states." He noted that there are some 100,000 
peacekeepers across the globe but that failed states still 
exist in places like Somalia, Darfur and Chad. "If we can be 
more effective at stabilizing and reconstructing, some cases 
can be avoided," said Brown, who pointed to Europe's 
successful experience in the Balkans. 

McCain on Iran; Darfur 
---------------------- 

¶8. (C/NF) Senator McCain agreed with Brown's remarks about 
nation building, but noted his own concerns with the Security 
Council. He said, "no matter how clear the evidence is, the 
Security Council is not going to act." This was the case 
with Darfur. Iran and Sudan were two significant problems, 
yet the world's next superpower (China) was constraining the 
Council. McCain asked Brown if there were ways the U.S. and 
the UK, together with other like-minded nations including 
Japan, could work collectively. McCain said it was worth 
exploring with French President Sarkozy if there were ways to 
work collectively on Iran. He clarified that he was not 
speaking of military action but of sanctions and noted that 
"Iran is not going to be the last nation to seek to acquire 
nuclear weapons." 

Brown on Iran, Russia, and the UK Nuclear Program 
--------------------------------------------- ---- 

¶9. (C) Brown told McCain he thought the G8 could be more 
effective. As to Iran, it was the Eastern European nations 
which were most concerned with not being dependent on Russia. 
They were therefore willing to make deals with Iran. The 
Eastern Europeans, "may want to do anything to have options 
that are not Russia," said Brown. Brown told McCain that the 
United Kingdom itself would be expanding its nuclear energy 
program. McCain asked what the UK did with its spent fuel. 

LONDON 00000878 003 OF 003 


Brown said this was the controversial part of the program and 
that peoples' fears were not yet alleviated. Building new 
nuclear plants had to be considered, however, as it was clear 
North Sea oil reserves are on the wane. The same decisions 
were being taken elsewhere in Europe, Brown said, and pointed 
to oil rich Norway making decisions on nuclear plants even 
though its oil and gas reserves are far from exploited. 
Lieberman raised the "up and down" nature of relations with 
Europe. Brown plunged in, saying this year was good -- with 
Sarkozy in France and Merkel in Germany. He said Europe was 
ready to respond to overtures on the environment, security 
and the global economy. 

Brown on Africa and Terrorism 
----------------------------- 

¶10. (C/NF) The Prime Minister raised his concern that Africa 
would be the next region to fall prey to the appeal of 
terrorism. He said there weren't enough schools in Africa 
and that madrassas were springing up across the continent. 
"Al Qaeda will find support in some of these countries," said 
Brown, "unless we show we are willing to be there." He added 
that China was buying all the natural resources on the 
continent and increasing African governments' debt. The 
"twin issues" of China and Al Qaeda in Africa were his 
concern. Brown said the UK and the U.S. needed to make 
Africans, and African governments, an offer that will help 
them to operate in a transparent and democratic fashion. 
Brown's big idea was to give 10 billion dollars a year 
dedicated to schools. Brown claimed this amount was 
sufficient to provide each child in Africa access to a 
school. Advocating that this could be the Western world's 
"offer" to Africa, Brown said such a broad commitment to 
schools and to health across the continent was necessary or 
"terrorism will take hold." He said Western assistance to 
Africans in the form of aid for education and health would be 
concrete expressions the West can "deliver its values" and 
would undermine the appeal of AQ extremism. Brown said 
Africa presented a "big opportunity" and that African leaders 
are ready
to respond and need support. 

CODEL on Guantanamo, Torture, and Al Qaeda 
------------------------------------------ 

¶11. (C/NF) Senator Graham said McCain was looking at 
alternatives to Guantanamo. McCain reiterated what he told 
Brown he has said before, "we will never torture another 
person in our custody again." In Iraq, McCain said, the 
Senators had met with a former Al Qaeda leader. McCain had 
asked what had led to Al Qaeda's gaining a strong foothold in 
the country. The Al Qaeda leader had replied, "two things, 
the chaos after the success of the initial invasion, and the 
greatest recruiting tool -- Abu Ghraib." 

The UK Terror Threat 
-------------------- 

¶12. (C/NF) Brown said winning the battle of ideas is 
important. "We have terror networks in the UK, with four 
potential plots active right now." He told McCain a huge 
number of individuals travel to and from Pakistan and the UK. 
The security and intelligence services in Britain are great, 
said Brown, but in the end, HMG has to win hearts and minds 
to isolate the extremists. 

Visit London's Classified Website: 
http://www.state.sgov.gov/p/eur/london/index. cfm 
Tuttle