VZCZCXRO1493
PP RUEHCHI RUEHDT RUEHNH
DE RUEHHM #1232/01 3480338
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
P 140338Z DEC 07
FM AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 3440
INFO RUEHHI/AMEMBASSY HANOI PRIORITY 2360
RUCNASE/ASEAN MEMBER COLLECTIVE
RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY 3659

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HO CHI MINH CITY 001232 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF, DRL/AWH 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PGOV PREL KIRF VM
SUBJECT: USCIRF IN HCMC: MEETING THE SECV 
 
 
HO CHI MIN 00001232  001.2 OF 002 
 
 
Summary 
------- 
¶1. (SBU) USCIRF Commissioners Cromartie, Bansal, Argue, Gaer and 
Eid and staffers Dettoni and Flipse met with the Southern 
Evangelical Church of Vietnam (SECV) leaders Pastor Ngo Van Buu 
(Vice President), Pastor Phan Quang Thieu (Senior Pastor) and 
Pastor Nguyen Vinh Cu (Treasurer General) on October 25.  Pastor 
Buu told USCIRF delegation that since the law on religion was 
passed in Vietnam, the SECV has "freedom with limitations" and 
noted nationwide implementation of the ordinance has been uneven 
in their experience.  The SECV steered clear of controversy in 
answering the Commission's questions on political issues, and 
shared few specifics on reports of alleged violence against SECV 
pastors and followers.  End summary. 
 
SECV Reports Freedom With Limits 
-------------------------------- 
¶2. (SBU) As with all denominations, SECV ordination and 
transfers of pastors requires prior GVN approval, which is not 
always granted.  The SECV has had more success with training 
pastors in recent years, with several seminary courses taking 
place in HCMC and the provinces.  However, the long training dry 
spell before 2004 means it will take time to train enough 
pastors to lead their burgeoning congregations.  In the 
provinces, Pastor Buu said that conditions have improved for 
their congregations in the Central Highlands, especially in Gia 
Lai, where the SECV President recently attend a church opening 
and the ordination of a new pastor.  In Dak Lak, Pastor Buu said 
things were "more difficult."  When USCIRF asked whether the GVN 
requests names of believers for SECV congregations and whether 
those followers are then harassed by local authorities, Pastor 
Thieu said the GVN does conduct checks to verify whether names 
on SECV's lists are really SECV followers, but did not cite any 
specific incidents of harassment.  On the issue of confiscated 
property, the SECV said the Prime Minister has yet to fulfill 
the "empty promises" he made regarding the SECV's petition to 
resolve the status of 265 closed churches. 
 
Politics Vs. Religion 
--------------------- 
¶3. (SBU) Commissioner Bansal said during meetings with GVN 
authorities in Hanoi, the delegation had been told there is a 
line between religious and political activities which religious 
groups should not cross.  She asked how the SECV interpreted 
this distinction and whether it limited their activities. 
Pastor Thieu said it was often hard to separate religious from 
political activities in Vietnam, but that as a religious 
organization working here, they must follow rules.  Pastor Thieu 
added that some of the limitations imposed by the GVN result 
from "misunderstandings" born of prejudice against 
Protestantism's "foreign origins" and an inherent suspicion 
regarding the work of foreign missionaries. 
 
Reports Unconfirmed 
------------------- 
¶4. (SBU) Commissioner Gaer asked if the pastors could confirm 
reports about a young SECV follower who had allegedly been 
beaten to death in Phu Yen province.  Pastor Cu said he had 
heard about the incident, but he did not have any details. 
Pastor Cu said he had heard about the beating of a pastor in Tra 
Vinh province in January, but as his assailants were not in 
uniform, they didn't know if they were GVN police or private 
citizens.  Pastor Ngo said local authorities thought the 
assailants might be anti-Christian Khmer Buddhists, who are the 
majority ethnic group in Tra Vinh. 
 
¶5. (SBU) Post has since met with the SECV pastor from Tra Vinh, 
who affirmed he and several of his followers were beaten by 
Khmer residents in January and again on November 15.  Post has 
not been able to confirm local authorities' role in the 
incidents, but notes that stories of vigilante-style violence 
meted out against individuals are commonly reported in the press 
and are not unique to religious organizations or leaders.  The 
SECV has asked Tra Vinh provincial authorities to investigate 
the incident and provide a report of their findings before they 
meet with the Hanoi Committee on Religious Affairs (CRA) on 
December 12.  Post will report developments septel. 
 
Comment 
------- 
¶5. (SBU) USCIRF delegates repeatedly asked for specific examples 
of limitations, harassment and pressure facing SECV 
congregations, as well as several questions soliciting opinions 
on whether the SECV views their religious activities as being 
inherently political.  The SECV's replies were often general and 
vague, perhaps reflecting their focus on spiritual issues but 
more likely revealing their general reluctance to discuss 
SECV-GVN relations in great detail.  Meetings with other 
provincial SECV leaders reported septel.  End comment. 
 
HO CHI MIN 00001232  002.2 OF 002 
 
 
 
¶6. (U) This cable was coordinated with Embassy Hanoi. 
FAIRFAX