VZCZCXRO1461
PP RUEHCHI RUEHDT RUEHNH
DE RUEHHM #1229/01 3480233
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
P 140233Z DEC 07
FM AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 3435
INFO RUEHHI/AMEMBASSY HANOI PRIORITY 2355
RUCNASE/ASEAN MEMBER COLLECTIVE
RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY 3654

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HO CHI MINH CITY 001229 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF, DRL/AWH 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM PGOV PREL KIRF VM
SUBJECT: USCIRF IN HCMC: MEETING THE DISSIDENTS 
 
 
HO CHI MIN 00001229  001.2 OF 002 
 
 
Summary 
------- 
¶1. (SBU) The USCIRF delegation met with Do Nam Hai and Dr. 
Nguyen Dan Que to discuss the human rights situation in Vietnam. 
 Both discussed the state of the democracy movement in Vietnam, 
the challenges facing democracy activists today (e.g., 
surveillance, harassment and arrest), and their belief that 
democracy and religious freedom are mutually reinforcing goals 
that bring together political and religious dissidents.  Both 
Que and Hai placed religious freedom within the framework of 
human rights and democracy, but demurred when asked by USCIRF to 
comment on whether certain figures were religious vs. political 
prisoners.  While Hai had no problems meeting the delegation at 
the New World Hotel on October 24, Dr. Que declined to attend 
due to increased police presence outside his residence.  The 
delegation was able to meet Que the next evening at his 
residence without difficulties.  End Summary. 
 
Hai Cites Press Reports to Laud Commission's Visit 
--------------------------------------------- ----- 
¶2. (SBU) Do Nam Hai thanked the Commission for its trip to 
Vietnam, calling international pressure necessary for the 
development of rights in Vietnam.  Hai handed over 
Vietnamese-language newspaper (Thanh Nien) accounts of the 
Commission's meetings Hanoi, highlighting Commissioner Gaer's 
request to Deputy Minister of Public Security:  carry out 
investigations of violations of religious freedom, free those 
arrested for peacefully expressing their political views, and 
create a mechanism to prevent future abuses.  Hai applauded the 
approach as well as news that MPS allowed the Commissioners to 
visit jailed dissidents Le Thi Cong Nhan and Nguyen Van Dai in 
prison. 
 
The Cost of Ignoring Human Rights 
--------------------------------- 
¶3. (SBU) While the GVN says there are no political or religious 
prisoners but only lawbreakers, Hai insisted that there are 
political prisoners arrested for peacefully expressing their 
political views.  Nhan and Dai are certainly political 
prisoners, he stated, adding that there are others like Nguyen 
Dang Que, though not currently in jail, who are being monitored 
and harassed.  Hai said that since he wrote an article in 2002 
calling for a referendum on multiparty democracy he has been 
monitored constantly; currently four shifts of three security 
personnel watch him around the clock.  He estimated the GVN cost 
of his personal surveillance at six thousand U.S. dollars per 
month, or "one hundred times Vietnam's average salary of $60." 
He cited land protester Liu Thi Thu Dung (NFI) as another 
example of a dissident who is not allowed to leave the area 
around her home.  (Note: Several activists have called GVN 
surveillance and monitoring of their communications a form of 
"virtual house arrest," and noted the chilling effect it has had 
on the democracy movement over the past year.  End note.) 
 
¶4. (SBU) He recounted the development of Bloc 8406 and their 
internet publication of their democracy manifesto in April 2006. 
 He went on to state that once the GVN had achieved its APEC and 
WTO goals (in early 2007), there was a crackdown on dissidents 
so "fearsome" that Human Rights Watch called it the worst in 
twenty years.  He added that those harassed, detained and 
arrested are patriots who believe that Vietnam needs human 
rights before it can develop economically -- without human 
rights, excessive power concentrated in a small group of leaders 
allows them to misappropriate assistance, capital and technology 
for their own advantage.  WTO and UNSC are good elements of 
development but not enough and "Vietnamese intellectuals must 
voice the pain of the nation," Hai said. 
 
Tentative on Religious Prisoners, But Hopeful 
--------------------------------------------- 
¶5. (SBU) When Commissioners asked Hai to explain the role that 
religious leaders played in Bloc 8406, he responded that 
religious freedom can help to advance political freedom and that 
political freedom ensures religious freedom, adding cryptically 
"the concepts can be different or the same."  Another pressed 
Hai on whether Nhan and Dai were religious prisoners as well as 
political prisoners, and Hai replied that he did not know the 
details of their cases and could not say.  A third noted that 
Hai had spoken generally of political and religious prisoners 
then asked for examples of religious prisoners; Hai instead 
offered Father Nguyen Van Ly as an example of someone who is a 
political prisoner and a religious figure. 
 
¶6. (SBU) In response to a question from Commissioner Gaer, Hai 
said that democracy advocates do have support in Vietnam's 
universities.  Hai said "the fear of being repressed" is waning 
in Vietnam and as this continues more will be joining together 
to fight for freedom and democracy.  Hai remains unbowed by his 
treatment, remembering that it took twelve years for Vaclav 
 
HO CHI MIN 00001229  002.2 OF 002 
 
 
Havel's 1977 Charter 77 to bear fruit in 1989. 
 
Dr. Que on Politics and Religion 
---------------------------- 
¶7. (SBU) Dr. Nguyen Dang Que, who was also scheduled to meet the 
delegation at the New World on the 25th, sent his son to explain 
he did not feel comfortable attending due to heavy police 
presence around his house, but invited the USCIRF to see him at 
home, which they did the next evening.  When the delegation 
arrived, no surveillance units were evident outside Dr. Que's 
home and the meeting proceeded without interruptions.  Dr. Que 
also spoke about his own experiences with the democracy movement 
and noted that while activists are not comfortable meeting 
openly, all groups and individuals are continuing to operate on 
their own to advance human rights and democracy in Vietnam.  He 
cited the land rights movement as evidence of growing social 
unrest as a result of the GVN's "morally bankrupt" policies and 
his belief that economic factors, such as Vietnam's membership 
in the WTO and the growing middle class in urban centers, will 
continue to provide pressure for change in all arenas. 
 
¶8. (SBU) When asked by Commissioners whether he made 
distinctions between religious vs. political activists, Que said 
that in some cases, politics and religion could not be 
separated.  Dr. Que felt the GVN's Ordinance on Religion was 
also a form of government control, as it required churches to 
register and request permission for certain activities like 
choosing leaders and printing religious materials.  Using 
"demagogic tricks," Que said, the GVN has isolated "stubborn 
spiritual leaders" like Father Ly, Central Highlands Pastor 
Nguyen Cong Chinh and the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam 
(UBCV)'s Thich Quang Do through imprisonment, monitoring and 
house arrest. 
 
Que's Joint Communique 
---------------------- 
¶9. (SBU) Dr. Que cited religious freedom and the release of 
religious and political prisoners as one of key items on his 
democracy agenda.  He asked whether the delegation would be 
willing to co-sign a Joint Communique which he had prepared, 
which included as one of its points "...The Vietnamese 
government continues to persecute its citizens for the 
non-violent practice of faith, free speech, free press and 
democratic values, including continuous arrests, detention and 
harassment of members of UBCV, the Catholic Church, the 
Protestant Church, the Hoa Hao, the Cao Dai, and many other 
individuals who call for democracy and freedom in Vietnam" 
 
¶10. (SBU) The Communique, which would be co-signed by USCIRF and 
Que's group, the Non-Violent Movement for Human Rights in 
Vietnam (Cao Trao Nhan Ban), called on the Vietnamese government 
to release religious leaders, dismantle "all forms" of control 
over religion, implement UN principles on religious freedom and 
guarantee the equal treatment for all religions, including the 
UBCV and Montagnard Protestants.  The USCIRF delegation said 
while they agreed with all of the principles and GVN actions 
called for in the Communique, they could not sign without 
consulting with USCIRF headquarters.  They offered to take the 
Communique back for review. 
 
Comment: 
-------- 
¶11. (SBU) Do Nam Hai presented a spirited case on behalf of 
Vietnam's democracy advocates but tempered his responses when 
Commissioners pressed him on religious freedom.  Que spoke 
broadly about the need for more democracy and freedom in 
Vietnam, including religious freedom, and did not make a 
distinction between those in jail for religious or political 
activism.  Both dissidents agreed that conditions for 
pro-democracy activists have deteriorated over the past year, 
but feel political change in Vietnam will be inevitable.  The 
question, as always, is timing. End comment. 
FAIRFAX