VZCZCXRO3032
PP RUEHCHI RUEHDT RUEHNH
DE RUEHHM #1193/01 3381112
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
P 041112Z DEC 07
FM AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 3390
INFO RUEHHI/AMEMBASSY HANOI PRIORITY 2325
RUCNASE/ASEAN MEMBER COLLECTIVE
RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY 3607

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HO CHI MINH CITY 001193 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF, DRL/AWH 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PGOV PREL KIRF VM
SUBJECT: USCIRF MEETS HCMC GVN: DEPUTY PARTY SECRETARY DUA 
 
 
HO CHI MIN 00001193  001.2 OF 002 
 
 
Summary 
------- 
¶1. (SBU) The USCIRF's meeting with Deputy Party Secretary Nguyen 
Van Dua on October 25 explored the reasons for implementing a 
legal framework on religion in Vietnam, with the CIRF 
questioning whether the law is a tool for freedom or control, 
and the Secretary justifying the need to protect Vietnam's 
citizens from "dishonest people."  Dua affirmed that Vietnam's 
citizens can practice religion freely and invited CIRF to report 
abuses to his office directly.  Dua also put the confiscated 
church property issue in the broader context of land rights use 
and development priorities in Vietnam, noting the GVN is working 
to resolve the land rights "disorder" that is a continuing 
legacy of years of conflict. 
 
Free Market for Religion 
------------------------ 
¶2. (SBU) As with HCMC People's Council Chairwoman Thao (septel), 
Commissioner Cromartie commended Vietnam for being a freer place 
than it was three years ago, but asked Deputy Party Secretary 
Dua to expand religious freedoms further.  Cromartie linked 
economic prosperity with social and political freedoms, noting 
their interdependence in fostering a free society.  Commissioner 
Argue said just as Ho Chi Minh City leads Vietnam in the area of 
economic growth and reform, HCMC should lead the country by 
fostering this same entrepreneurial attitude toward religious 
freedom.  Commissioner Argue said "strong religious 
organizations will produce strong families and leading 
citizens."  Dua responded to calls for HCMC to lead Hanoi on 
religious freedom issues by affirming Hanoi's lead on religious 
-- and all other -- policy in Vietnam, but said that leaders in 
both cities often exchange views on Vietnam's economic and 
social development priorities, including religious freedom 
issues.  In response to Commissioner Argue's comments about the 
role of religion in building strong families, Dua relayed the 
story of his own mother, whom he described as a devout Buddhist, 
and the fact that she remained active in her temple even though 
Dua himself is both a non-believer and communist party official. 
 When his mother passed away, Dua added, he followed all 
Buddhist traditions in arranging her funeral and memorial 
service. 
 
What's This Ordinance For, Anyway? 
---------------------------------- 
¶3. (SBU) Many Commissioners voiced concerns about whether the 
legal framework was aimed at enhancing or controlling religious 
freedoms, citing slow registrations, failure to recognize 
certain religious groups, and reports of provincial officials 
requiring lists of church followers -- lists that are then used 
to pressure followers to abandon their beliefs.  Others raised 
concerns about vague language in the ordinance that could be 
interpreted restrictively, with Commissioner Bansal referring 
specifically to one provision that states "it is acceptable to 
worship as long as this worship propagates views in line with 
this nation's fine traditions." 
 
¶4. (SBU) Dua responded by saying each country had its own 
cultural and societal values, and the CIRF looked at religious 
activities in Vietnam from their own unique perspective.  Dua 
said the GVN issues guidelines with the intent to enhance the 
development of society and respond to the needs of the people 
and the legal framework on religion was enacted because religion 
is so important to many Vietnamese people.  He stated that 
Vietnamese law ensures the right to follow a particular religion 
as long as that religion operates within the law.  Responding to 
concerns about "vague language," Dua once again replied that the 
language only seemed vague when viewed outside its cultural and 
social context; he assured commissioners that within the 
Vietnamese tradition of reverence for family and social order, 
the meaning of the rules are quite clear. 
 
A Cautionary Tale 
----------------- 
¶5. (SBU) Dua justified the need for a legal framework by 
recounting a fable about a man who claimed he had been possessed 
by a spirit and could cure disease.  The man went around giving 
people unclean water as his "cure," which only made them more 
ill.  Dua said it would be illogical to allow just anyone to set 
up a religious organization in Vietnam without the government 
ensuring the organization's good intentions.  Dua compared the 
process for registering a religion to the process for 
registering a corporation or any other legal entity, noting the 
need to ensure order and protect the public from "dishonest 
persons."  Dua said just as a business license can be revoked 
for illegal behavior, religious organizations that do not work 
in accordance with the conditions of their license could 
theoretically have their licenses revoked by the issuing body. 
Dua was quick to add, however, that he had never heard of any 
religious group getting its license revoked. He affirmed that 
 
HO CHI MIN 00001193  002.2 OF 002 
 
 
Vietnamese people can carry out normal religious activities 
without fear of government intervention.  Dua encouraged the 
CIRF to reach out to more religious groups in order to get a 
broader perspective of religious practice in Vietnam. 
 
¶6. (SBU) Responding to the CIRF's concerns about registration 
leading to harassment, Dua agreed with CIRF's position that 
religious groups should not be required to submit lists of the 
names of adherents.  He noted the legal framework only requires 
three conditions for registration: groups must provide the name 
of the venue they will worship at, the size of the congregation, 
and the names of the group's leaders.  Any requests beyond those 
are not authorized under the legal framework and thus not 
permitted.  Dua invited USCIRF to report any abuses in which 
religious groups in HCMC were required to submit lists of 
followers to his office. 
 
Dua on Land Rights 
------------------ 
¶7. (SBU) Like HCMC People's Council Chairwoman Thao, Dua assured 
the CIRF that land that was formally "given" to the GVN by 
religious organizations will be used in a manner consistent with 
the wishes of the religious group that gave it, while "borrowed" 
properties would be returned.  Dua said the history of Vietnam 
is colored by its struggle for independence, and that this 
struggle induced "disorders" in land and property rights.  Dua 
said these "disorders" are not limited to religious 
organizations, but affect many individuals and groups in 
Vietnam.  Dua said Ho Chi Minh City has implemented new policies 
aimed at stabilizing land usage and the People's Committee is 
considering the land needs of HCMC's religious organizations. 
Dua acknowledged the GVN still needs to figure out a way to 
return the land to avoid future "disorders." 
 
Comment: Not Quite Seeing the Light 
----------------------------------- 
¶8. (SBU) The CIRF's line of questioning pointed out the 
dual-sided nature of the legal framework on religion in Vietnam. 
 Many religious leaders here laud the new freedoms their 
congregations now enjoy and are cautiously optimistic about 
further reforms.  But several pastors have noted the law's 
limitations by comparing the GVN to "a parent giving a child one 
piece of candy at a time."  Dua's defense of the legal framework 
on religion as a means to protect Vietnam's citizens from 
"dishonest people" has also been voiced by other GVN officials, 
including the head of Protestant affairs for Southern branch of 
the National Committee on Religious Affairs (CRA).  While the 
GVN is making concrete progress on improving religious freedom 
conditions in practice, the GVN's skeptical attitude towards 
religious groups--as well as other civil society 
organizations--will take longer to evolve. 
 
¶9. (U) This cable was coordinated with Embassy Hanoi. 
FAIRFAX