VZCZCXRO1674
RR RUEHCHI RUEHCN RUEHDT RUEHHM
DE RUEHHI #1850/01 3020820
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
R 290820Z OCT 07
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 6594
INFO RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH 3865
RUEHZS/ASEAN REGIONAL FORUM COLLECTIVE
RHEHNSC/NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASHINGTON DC
RUEHROV/AMEMBASSY VATICAN 0033

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 HANOI 001850 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF, AND DRL/AWH 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM PGOV PREL KIRF VM
 
SUBJECT: USCIRF MEETINGS WITH HANOI ARCHBISHOP AND ECVN PRESIDENT 
 
 
HANOI 00001850  001.2 OF 003 
 
 
Summary 
------- 
 
(SBU) On October 22, Commissioners from the United States Commission 
on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) discussed the state of 
religious freedom and human rights in Vietnam with Hanoi Archbishop 
Ngo Quang Kiet and President of the Evangelical Church of Vietnam 
North (ECVN) Pastor Phung Quang Huyen.  The two religious leaders 
said some laws are not clearly written, and local officials with a 
weak understanding of the laws interpret them differently.  Catholic 
leaders do not understand the GVN's Committee on Religious Affairs 
(CRA) rejection of two candidates for bishoprics for "family 
reasons."  International pressure, Vietnam's continuing integration 
into the world community and the country's adoption of the legal 
framework on religion have helped improve religious conditions 
across Vietnam, according to the two.  Kiet said Father Nguyen Van 
Ly was arrested for his political activities.  Regarding imprisoned 
Protestant Lawyer Nguyen Van Dai, formerly a member of ECVN, Huyen 
said it is the clear position of the ECVN not to get involved in 
"political activities," as Dai did.  Huyen said over 700 
ECVN-affiliated congregation registration applications remain 
pending in the North, but even unregistered ECVN congregaQns are 
now permitted to operate normally in Vietnam.  Government training 
manuals that encourage forced renunciations of faith no longer 
exist, said Huyen.  End Summary. 
 
Meeting with Archbishop 
----------------------- 
 
¶2. (SBU) On October 22, four commissioners of the United States 
Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) discussed 
religious freedom (RF) and human rights in Vietnam with Hanoi 
Archbishop Ngo Quang Kiet.  The Archbishop said that the RF 
situation has improved over the last two years, but that further 
progress depends on improving GVN attitudes.  He noted that the RF 
situation in Vietnam's major cities is better than in rural areas, 
citing the problems he and other Hanoi-based clergy have had in 
getting permission to travel to Northwest parishes to preside over 
religious services and check on the status of church-building 
activities. 
 
¶3. (SBU) The Archbishop added that some local officials have a weak 
understanding of laws and ordinances on religion, saying that the 
central government does not seem to have the will to train these 
officials.  Furthermore, laws are not clearly written, so local 
officials interpret them differently.  The RF situation will 
continue to be based on how local law enforcement officers feel 
about religious groups if the central government, which has 
demonstrated the will to extend its writ to provincial areas when it 
desires, does not do more to educate these officials. 
 
¶4. (SBU) Kiet said that the GVN is always watching what the Church 
is doing, but does not restrict or prevent it from holding services 
or carrying out charitable activities.  In "sensitive areas" in the 
Northwest, a visible police presence can be seen during Mass, he 
said.  Moreover, some police from the Ministry of Public Security 
from time to time question people around the Archbishop. 
 
¶5. (SBU) Catholic leaders and laymen do not understand the CRA's 
reasons for rejecting two candidates for bishoprics earlier in the 
year, the Archbishop said.  According to the GVN, one nominee's 
sponsor was imprisoned in the past while the other's father had 
problems during the agrarian reform era decades ago.  In the past, 
the GVN looked into everyone's background to determine if someone 
was politically suitable for a position, but the Archbishop said he 
thought this practice no longer applied.  He said he did not 
understand why the GVN looked at the nominees' family histories -- 
instead of their qualifications -- as a basis for making its 
decision. 
 
¶6. (SBU) The Archbishop said that international pressure had helped 
improve RF conditions across Vietnam.  However, most GVN officials 
do not see the benefit of allowing more religiously-affiliated 
schools and charitable organizations to carry out activities in 
Vietnam.  The GVN has recognized religious groups because it had to, 
not because it wanted to, he added.  The Archbishop said the GVN had 
repeatedly denied his requests to travel to Ha Giang Province (in 
the Northwest) and to build churches in that province. 
 
¶7. (SBU) Former Ambassador Marine had visited Ha Giang province and 
pushed local officials to allow Hanoi-based clergy to visit as well, 
the Archbishop continued.  Church officials have now been granted 
permission to build a church in Ha Giang, but people there are still 
looking for a suitable area to build it.  In northern Son La and Lai 
Chau Provinces, the Hanoi Qchdiocese also has not been allowed to 
send priests to preside over mass and oversee construction of new 
 
HANOI 00001850  002.2 OF 003 
 
 
churches.  In Hoa Binh Province (which is in the Hanoi Diocese), the 
Archbishop has not been allowed to visit and, in fact, the local 
government has replaced a church with a government building. 
 
¶8. (SBU) To Commissioner Preeta Bansal's question on whether Father 
Nguyen Van Ly is a political or religious prisoner, Kiet responded 
that "it is fair to say he was arrested for his political activities 
such as forming a political party."  Ly is the only Catholic leader 
that Kiet is aware of who is in prison.  On where the Archbishop 
draws the line on what is political, not religious, expression, the 
Archbishop said that "we do not do things that are against the 
government." 
 
¶9. (SBU) The Archbishop added that the GVN's failure to return 
church property remains a problem.  Years ago, the GVN seized many 
church properties in Hoa Binh Province, but there has been no 
progress in getting them back, he added.  In Hanoi proper, the GVN 
has failed to return church properties near the Ho Chi Minh 
Mausoleum and Saint Joseph's Catholic Church. 
 
¶10. (SBU) For issues the GVN takes a great interest in, it will 
dedicate time and resources to training local officials, Kiet 
continued.  Moreover, sometimes central GVN officials instruct local 
officials to make things difficult for the church.  Local officials 
do not know the laws and sometimes central government leaders can 
sway local officials to not allow certain church activities.  Kiet 
gave no specific examples to support this claim. 
 
¶11. (SBU) The GVN has granted the Church some leeway in carrying out 
educational and health care activities, the Archbishop continued. 
The Church operates a kindergarten and schools for disadvantaged 
youth.  The GVN never officially granted permission for the Church 
to carry out many of its charitable activities.  This probably is 
because officials do not pay attention to or want to impede that 
work, he said. 
 
Meeting with ECVN 
----------------- 
 
¶12. (SBU) USCIRF met separately on October 22 with the President of 
the Evangelical Church of Vietnam North (ECVN), Pastor Phung Quang 
HuyenQnd ethnic minority Protestant leaders from the Northwest 
Highlands.  President Huyen, along with two deputies and a handful 
of ethnic Hmong and Dzao pastors from Lang Son and other Northern 
Vietnamese provinces, described for USCIRF the ECVN's development 
since its founding in 1955, interrupted by the war period.  The GVN, 
they said, has now officially recognized 14 Protestant denominations 
in Vietnam and registered 52 of ECVN's congregations nationwide. 
 
¶13. (SBU) However, over 700 ECVN-affiliated congregation 
registration applications remained pending, Huyen continued.  Huyen 
said that even unregistered ECVN congregations were now permitted to 
operate normally in Vietnam.  Huyen attributed improvements in the 
GVN's tolerance of religious freedom to Vietnam's "reintegration 
into the rest of the world" with WTO and Permanent Normal Trade 
Relations (PNTR) status, and the adoption in recent years of its new 
legal framework on religion. 
 
¶14. (SBU) President Huyen said there had been "significant 
improvements for ECVN" in the last couple of years, citing more 
permits to construct churches.  However, enforcement of the new 
legal framework was still "hit or miss" with many of the new laws 
not well interpreted at the local levels and implemented slowly. 
Responding to a question from USCIRF about reported government 
training manuals for local GVN officials which encouraged forced 
renunciations of faith, President Huyen said they "no longer 
existed." 
 
¶15. (SBU) Huyen also had not heard of any beatings of Protestant 
worshippers since 2006.  Rather, Huyen said, the issues he faces are 
a lack of awareness and education among local government officials, 
as well as among worshippers.  He also said the GVN had been alarmed 
at the sudden growth of Protestantism in the countryQHuyen's 
deputies said missionary work was generally not allowed by 
authorities in the North, and many individuals, such as trained 
pastors, were limited in their ability to move from one district to 
another for purposes of religious instruction.  President Huyen said 
several GVN internal security issues hindered a greater opening for 
Protestant congregations in the North. 
 
¶16. (SBU) When asked by USCIRF about imprisoned Protestant lawyer 
Nguyen Van Dai, formerly a member of ECVN, President Huyen said it 
was the clear position of the ECVN not to get involved in "political 
activities."  He said Dai was part of the pro-democracy Bloc 8406 
movement and was "not a religious prisoner."  USCIRF raised the 
issue of reports of children under age 14 being prevented by 
 
HANOI 00001850  003.2 OF 003 
 
 
authorities from attending religious services with their parents, 
and Protestant youth groups not being allowed to convene.  President 
Huyen said this policy was "not clear," but he had heard about the 
issue, and minors should be allowed to attend religious services. 
 
¶17. (U) This cable was cleared by Chairman Cromartie. 
 
MICHALAK