VZCZCXRO1666
RR RUEHCHI RUEHCN RUEHDT RUEHHM
DE RUEHHI #1849/01 3020819
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
R 290819Z OCT 07
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 6592
INFO RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH 3863
RUEHZS/ASEAN REGIONAL FORUM COLLECTIVE
RUEHROV/AMEMBASSY VATICAN 0031

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HANOI 001849 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF, DRL/AWH 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PGOV PREL KIRF VM
 
SUBJECT: USCIRF MEETING WITH VIETNAMESE VICE FOREIGN MINISTER 
 
HANOI 00001849  001.2 OF 002 
 
 
Summary 
------- 
 
(SBU) Visiting Commissioners from the United States Commission on 
International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) discussed religious 
freedom, human rights and Vietnam's prisoners of concern with 
Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) Vice Minister Pham Binh Minh on 
October 22.  Minh cited positive developments "in all aspects" of 
the US-Vietnam relationship and said the GVN remains committed to 
discussing differences on human rights.  On the question of 
recognizing Buddhist sects separate from the State-sanctioned 
Vietnam Buddhist Sangha (VBS), Minh said that the GVN will not allow 
groups such as the United Buddhist Church of Vietnam to "destroy the 
unity of the VBS."  Individuals the USG regards as prisoners of 
concern are in jail because they violated Vietnamese law, Minh 
asserted.  USCIRF members rejected Minh's comparison between 
terrorists in Guantanamo Bay who are determined to kill Americans 
and those in Vietnam who are arrested for peacefully expressing 
their political views.  End Summary. 
 
¶2. (SBU) On October 22, four commissioners from the United States 
Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) discussed 
religious freedom, human rights and Vietnam's prisoners of concern 
with Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) Vice Minister Pham Binh Minh. 
 Minh began by citing the positive developments "in all aspects" of 
the US-Vietnam relationship.  He said the GVN "cares about the human 
rights" of its people and noted that the Vietnamese Constitution 
guarantees the right to free religious and political expression. 
Foreign government criticism of the GVN's domestic practices 
actually "helps us look at how we can improve the lives of our 
citizens," he added.  In this connection, he proudly explained that 
Vietnamese living standards have increased dramatically over the 
last 20 years. "It is like in your country in that we, too, are 
trying to take care of our people," he said. 
 
¶3. (SBU) Minh said that Vietnam has experienced tremendous growth in 
the number of religious adherents since 1975.  He cited statistics 
that indicate over half of Vietnam's population believes in a 
religion.  If the GVN restricts religious freedom, it is in effect 
"acting against half the Vietnamese population," he said.  It is a 
GVN policy "to get religious freedom right," he added. 
 
¶4. (SBU) Minh encouraged the delegation to talk to ordinary 
adherents of Vietnam's varied faiths because "if you talk only to 
government people, then you get a biased view."  He suggested that 
they attend a Protestant celebration in Thai Binh Province, and if 
they are in the country on the 15th of the month, to take in a 
Buddhist "Ve Sak" (full-moon) celebration.  USCIRF Chairman Michael 
Cromartie responded that, in some other countries, government 
leaders tell USCIRF to listen only to them, not religious figures. 
He commended the GVN for its openness in encouraging USCIRF to speak 
with a broad range of persons and said Minh's encouragement of the 
delegation to visit the churches, pagodas and mosques of Vietnam is 
a positive sign. 
 
Vietnam's Buddhists 
------------------- 
 
¶5. (SBU) Commissioner Preeta Bansal commended the GVN for its 
"foresight" in recognizing different Protestant denominations in 
Vietnam.  She asked if the GVN would demonstrate the same foresight 
in recognizing Buddhist and Hoa Hao organizations that refuse to 
fall under the GVN-sanctioned Vietnam Buddhist Sangha (VBS) 
umbrella.  Minh responded that the USCIRF should take note of 
conditions in Vietnam when it talks about the "universality of human 
rights."  Vietnam has its own cultural and economic traditions and 
the GVN wants to maintain stability, which is why it has required 
the religious sects to register, he said.  He said that the GVN 
"does not intervene" in the affairs of the VBS and that the GVN will 
not allow organizations such as the United Buddhist Church of 
Vietnam (UBCV) to destroy the "unity" of the VBS.  Commissioner 
Bansal responded that allowing groups outside the VBS to register is 
an "important benchmark" for the commission in evaluating overall 
religious freedom in Vietnam. 
 
Connecting Religious and Political Freedoms 
------------------------------------------- 
 
¶6. (SBU) USCIRF members drew a connection between religious and 
political freedoms.  Commissioner Felice Gaer said that Vietnam will 
not enjoy full religious freedom until its citizens can freely speak 
their minds.  She appealed for the GVN to release Le Thi Cong Nhan, 
Nguyen Van Dai, Father Nguyen Van Ly, Thich Quang Do and all other 
prisoners of concern. 
 
¶7. (SBU) Minh responded saying that every country has its own laws 
and traditions.  Those people who are in prison in Vietnam are there 
 
HANOI 00001849  002.2 OF 002 
 
 
because they violated Vietnamese law.  Citing the prisoners at 
Guantanamo Bay, Minh said the United States has its own ways of 
dealing with people who are bound and determined to hurt it. 
Vietnam has its own system of laws and those people who are trying 
to hurt the Vietnamese state are subject to those laws, the VM said. 
 USCIRF members rejected Minh's comparison between terrorists in 
Guantanamo Bay who are determined to kill Americans and those 
Vietnamese who are in prison for peacefully expressing their 
political views. 
 
¶8. (SBU) For provincial, district or commune officials who are 
alleged to have violated central government edicts on religious 
freedom, the GVN first conducts an investigation, Minh said.  Local 
officials found to have violated religious freedom are punished, and 
Minh promised the GVN would follow up reports of problems 
registering Protestant groups in the Central and Northwest 
Highlands. 
 
¶9. (SBU) In response to USCIRF questions about Vietnam using 
nebulous national security laws to put people who express political 
views in prison, Minh said the Vietnamese Constitution allows for 
freedom of expression.  He reiterated that the USCIRF must take into 
account the situation and traditions of each country when it talks 
about the universality of human rights.  He concluded by pointing 
out that many people ask him why the United States does not want to 
discuss the Agent Orange issue in its human rights dialogue with 
Vietnam. 
 
Comment 
------- 
 
¶10. (SBU) Minh is one of two MFA officials on the Communist Party of 
Vietnam's Central Committee (though he is a non-voting alternate 
member), is the GVN's chief representative in the Human Rights 
Dialogue with the USG.  His extensive experience in defending 
Vietnam's positions on human rights and religious freedom was clear 
in this meeting. 
 
¶11. (U) This message was cleared with USCIRF Chairman Cromartie. 
 
Michalak