VZCZCXRO1643
RR RUEHCHI RUEHCN RUEHDT RUEHHM
DE RUEHHI #1848/01 3020817
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
R 290817Z OCT 07
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 6590
INFO RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH 3861
RUEHZS/ASEAN REGIONAL FORUM COLLECTIVE
RUEHROV/AMEMBASSY VATICAN 0029

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HANOI 001848 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF, DRL/AWH 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PGOV PREL KIRF VM
 
SUBJECT: USCIRF MEETING WITH PRIME MINISTER NGUYEN TAN DZUNG 
 
 
HANOI 00001848  001.2 OF 002 
 
 
Summary 
------- 
 
¶1. (SBU) On October 23, five commissioners from the United States 
Commission on Religious Freedom (USCIRF) discussed human rights and 
Vietnam's prisoners of concern with Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dzung. 
 USCIRF members said that Vietnam will not enjoy full religious 
freedom until its citizens can freely speak their minds, stating 
that many international non-governmental entities and foreign 
governments share USCIRF's concerns about the recent crackdown on 
political dissent.  The PM responded that the Vietnamese 
Constitution guarantees freedom of political and religious 
expression and that Vietnamese citizens in prison are there because 
they "violated Vietnamese laws."  USCIRF members reminded the PM 
that Vietnam had signed on to several international covenants, such 
as the UN Declaration on Human Rights, and that keeping these 
individuals in prison for peacefully expressing their political 
views violates international norms.  International law is a good 
reference point for the GVN, but every government has the right to 
make its own laws based on its own social, political, economic and 
cultural conditions, the PM responded.  After pointing to the 
positive direction the U.S.-Vietnam relationship is heading, the PM 
said he wondered how the United States could "lecture Vietnam" on 
human rights given the use by the U.S. of Agent Orange and the 
legacy of 2.1 million Vietnamese war dead.  He strongly and 
repeatedly urged the USG not to impose its values on Vietnam, but 
said the GVN remains open to discussing its differences with the 
USG.  End Summary. 
 
¶2. (SBU) On October 23, five commissioners from the United States 
Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) held 
discussions on religious freedom and human rights with Vietnamese 
Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dzung.  USCIRF Chairman Michael Cromartie 
noted President Bush's statement during Vietnamese President Nguyen 
Minh Triet's visit to the White House that the Government of Vietnam 
(GVN) must do more on human rights if it is to enjoy deeper 
relations with the United States.  The ability to freely speak one's 
mind and practice one's religion is a fundamental right of all 
humans, Cromartie said.  The GVN has made progress on religious 
freedom, but its crackdown on political dissent concerns not only 
the USCIRF but other non-government entities and foreign governments 
as well.  Furthermore, imprisoning those who merely call for 
political change goes against international legal norms that the GVN 
has signed on to, he said. 
 
¶3. (SBU) PM Dzung responded by noting the positive direction in 
which US-Vietnam relations are heading and that the Vietnamese 
people want even stronger ties with the American people.  He 
acknowledged that differences on human rights remain, but that it 
"is important to continue to discuss these differences in an open 
and frank manner."  The PM said Vietnam has its own laws and 
traditions and the GVN does not arrest or imprison its citizens 
because of their religious or political beliefs.  The right to 
political and religious expression is enshrined in the Vietnamese 
Constitution, he added.  However, if Vietnamese citizens form, or 
try to form, organizations that seek to incite people and harm the 
State, they are breaking Vietnamese law and will be punished. 
 
¶4. (SBU) USCIRF Commissioner Felice Gaer followed up by appealing 
for the GVN, in keeping with its international obligations, to 
release Le Thi Cong Nhan, Nguyen Van Dai, Father Nguyen Van Ly and 
any other prisoner of conscience.  The PM responded that the GVN is 
not "afraid of these individuals" but that they are in jail simply 
because they broke Vietnamese law.  International law is a "good 
reference point" for the GVN, but Vietnam is a sovereign nation with 
its own laws.  "I fully understand the UN Declaration on Human 
Rights, and we always are working to advance human rights in our 
country," the PM said.  However, the U.S. and other countries do not 
have the right to impose their values on Vietnam, he asserted. 
 
¶6. (SBU) The PM reiterated that Vietnam wants to move forward in its 
relations with the United States.  However, the USCIRF delegation 
was "fixated on human rights" and did not, in his view, have a good 
understanding of Vietnam's history and traditions.  Becoming heated, 
he pointed to the Agent Orange (AO) issue, saying the GVN and 
Vietnamese people view it as a human rights issue and citing 
statistics on the number of people killed during the war as well as 
people affected by AO.  He asked if the USCIRF was taking the AO 
issue into consideration and whether the United States felt guilt 
about the number of people affected by AO.  "How can the U.S. 
respect itself on human rights given what it did during the war?" he 
asked. 
 
¶7. (SBU) USCIRF Commissioner Dr. Donald Argue replied that the war 
was indeed tragic, but it is "a new day" in the Vietnam-U.S. 
relationship, "so let us move forward."  The U.S. does not consider 
itself perfect, but is deeply committed to freedom of conscience and 
 
HANOI 00001848  002.2 OF 002 
 
 
religion. 
 
¶8. (SBU) USCIRF Commissioner Preeta Bansal commended the GVN for 
having the foresight in recognizing Protestant groups as separate 
entities.  She asked if, in that same vein, the GVN would be willing 
to recognize Buddhist sects or groups, such as the United Buddhist 
Church of Vietnam (UBCV), that want to remain outside the umbrella 
of the GVN-sanctioned Vietnam Buddhist Sangha (VBS).  She also asked 
if the PM would be willing to meet UBCV leaders.  The PM replied 
that, as the GVN's top leader, he is ready to meet any religious 
dignitary who wants to meet.  He reminded the USCIRF delegation 
that, last year, he met Pope Benedict in Rome and that he holds 
regular discussions with Vietnam-based religious leaders.  However, 
the PM said that he only talks to religious figures who have 
followed "the requirements of Vietnamese law"  (Note: UBCV leaders 
such as Thich Quang Do have consistently called for the end of 
one-party rule.  End Note). 
 
¶9. (SBU) The PM asserted that, since the majority of UBCV members 
"voluntarily" decided to join the VBS years ago, those who continue 
to want a separate UBCV entity should "listen to the majority" who 
do not want this.  Commissioner Bansal explained that freedom of 
belief is "an individual decision," so if only a few people want to 
have their own separate religious organization, they should be 
allowed to do so.  This right is enshrined in international law, she 
added.  The GVN could send a strong signal about its dedication to 
protecting religious freedom by inviting various Buddhist and Hoa 
Hao leaders and followers to the VBS-sponsored international "Ve 
Sak" (full moon) festival scheduled for next year in Vietnam, she 
said.  She reminded the PM that GVN treatment of the UBCV and 
various Hoa Hao sects is an "important benchmark" in USCIRF's 
assessment of religious freedom conditions in the country. 
 
¶10. (SBU) The PM said that the various sects must obey Vietnamese, 
not U.S., laws.  He reiterated that Vietnam is a sovereign nation 
with its own laws which represent the will of its 84 million people 
and will not be dictated to by the United States.  "You must respect 
our views and perspectives," he said.  Bansal emphasized that she 
was referring not to U.S. laws but rather international laws that 
Vietnam had signed on to. 
 
¶11. (SBU) The PM asked that the USCIRF avoid "manipulated 
information." He said USCIRF members are always welcome to come to 
Vietnam to talk to a variety of people about the religious and human 
rights situation here.  To continue the dialogue on human rights and 
religious freedom, the PM urged the USCIRF to come again next year. 
 
 
¶12. (U) This cable was cleared with USCIRF Chairman Cromartie. 
 
Michalak