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INFO RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY 0748
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UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 08 HANOI 000669 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
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STATE FOR EAP/MLS AND DRL 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM KIRF PREL PGOV VM
SUBJECT: U.S.-VIETNAM HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE: MORNING SESSION 
 
 
HANOI 00000669  001.2 OF 008 
 
 
Summary 
------- 
 
¶1. (SBU) Delegations from the United States and Vietnam met 
for the two countries' first Human Rights Dialogue in over 
three years February 20.  The morning session included 
opening remarks, Vietnam's presentation of its approaches to 
human rights, a discussion of criminal code, prison 
conditions and prisoners of concern and an abbreviated 
discussion of religious freedom, which was picked up in the 
afternoon session (septel).  The tone of the HRD was open 
and cordial, with both sides expressing their desire to use 
the discussions to further accelerate positive developments 
in bilateral relations.  In response to DRL A/S Lowenkron's 
presentation on criminal code, prisons and prisoners of 
concern, the GVN highlighted recent progress in legal and 
judicial reform and suggested that Decree 31 (administrative 
detention) may be amended, but not abolished.  A/S Lowenkron 
also called for greater access to trials and prisons and 
urged the GVN to allow the UN access to prisons.  The GVN 
representatives left open the possibility that there would 
be future amnesties or sentence reductions for prisoners of 
concern, including Pham Hong Son, and agreed to discuss 
further our prisoner list. 
 
¶2. (SBU) The GVN sought clarification of the reported 
mistreatment of prisoners in U.S. prisons, incidents at Abu 
Ghraib and the situation in Guantanamo Bay.  In the 
discussion on religious freedom, the GVN representatives 
highlighted recent advances, including the promulgation of a 
new legal framework on religion, efforts to ensure that 
local officials and religious believers are aware of the 
changes and the registration of new congregations.  U.S. 
Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom 
Hanford acknowledged these improvements and pledged to work 
with the GVN to address our issues of concern in order to 
remove Vietnam from the list of Countries of Particular 
Concern.  The two sides agreed to continue in the afternoon 
the discussion on religious freedom, including remaining 
issues of USG concern.  End Summary. 
 
Opening Remarks 
--------------- 
 
¶3. (SBU) Vietnam delegation head and MFA International 
Organizations Department Director General Pham Binh Minh 
opened the 11th round (and first in over three years) of the 
U.S.-Vietnam Human Rights Dialogue (HRD) February 20 (full 
participants' lists in Para 33).  In his initial remarks, 
Minh noted that bilateral relations had greatly improved in 
2005, and Prime Minister Phan Van Khai's visit to the United 
States and the U.S.-Vietnam Joint Statement were the year's 
highlights.  With Vietnam's WTO accession efforts and its 
hosting of APEC 2006, this year would prove to be an equally 
important year for bilateral ties.  In this context, the HRD 
will help to increase mutual understanding between the 
United States and Vietnam by allowing the two sides to 
frankly discuss issues of mutual concern in the spirit of 
the Joint Statement, DG Minh said. 
 
¶4. (SBU) Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human 
Rights and Labor Barry F. Lowenkron noted that the fact that 
the United States and Vietnam were able to schedule the HRD 
shows that the two sides had overcome the obstacles that had 
led to the HRD's suspension in 2002.  Today, the United 
States and Vietnam enjoy strong, cooperative and productive 
relations and have the responsibility to build on PM Khai's 
historic visit to the United States.  The Joint Statement 
commits the two countries to raise their ties to a higher 
plane, and this is the basis for the efforts surrounding the 
HRD.  United States Ambassador-at-Large for International 
Religious Freedom John V. Hanford's participation in the HRD 
signals the importance of the HRD and the key place 
religious freedom has in this dialogue, A/S Lowenkron said. 
 
¶5. (SBU) The United States and Vietnam need to do everything 
in their power to ensure that the HRD bolsters their 
positive relations, the A/S continued, particularly because 
of President George W. Bush's plans to visit Hanoi in 
November 2006 for the APEC Leaders Meeting.  The HRD is also 
important because the A/S has an obligation to report to 
Congress the HRD and what it has achieved.  For the United 
States, the principles surrounding the HRD are threefold: 
that it leads to concrete results; that it is candid and 
transparent; and, that the two countries can bring all of 
their concerns to the table.  On this occasion, the United 
States delegation will present a number of suggestions for 
Vietnam's consideration, including possible actions that 
Vietnam could take that would be well received by both the 
 
HANOI 00000669  002.2 OF 008 
 
 
President and the international community.  We note the 
positive steps that the GVN has taken in the area of 
religious freedom and in releasing a number of prisoners of 
concern.  Vietnam has much to be proud of in its socio- 
economic development efforts on behalf of its citizens. 
Improvements in these areas are without question.  Continued 
improvements in the human rights situation, and political 
and legal developments, can bolster Vietnam's efforts in 
other areas.  They can also help to demonstrate the 
importance Vietnam attaches to these matters and establish 
Vietnam as a model country that respects fundamental human 
rights, A/S Lowenkron stressed. 
 
¶6. (SBU) In the May 5 exchange of letters, the United States 
committed to engage in dialogues, Ambassador Hanford 
observed, and the United States is pleased in connection 
with HRD to uphold this commitment.  Over the past few 
years, the United States and Vietnam have worked on the 
religious freedom issue in ways that have improved official 
and unofficial bilateral ties.  Progress in the area of 
religious freedom and other areas on the HRD's agenda will 
allow the U.S.-Vietnam relationship to improve further, 
Ambassador Hanford said. 
 
Approaches to Human Rights 
-------------------------- 
 
¶7. (SBU) Turning to the next item on the agenda, "Approaches 
to Human Rights," DG Minh noted that to understand Vietnam's 
perspective on human rights, one had to understand Vietnam's 
historical circumstances, particularly its over thousand- 
year struggle for freedom and independence.  These are the 
basic human rights that Vietnam cherishes, along with 
sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-interference in 
its internal affairs.  Furthermore, Vietnam believes that 
the protection of political and civil rights are linked with 
social and economic development.  As such, Vietnam's efforts 
to develop its economy, such as through its "doi moi" 
(renovation) policy, are designed to encourage social 
progress.  Vietnam also believes that, in a diverse world, 
international human rights standards should be harmonized 
with the unique historical, cultural and other traditions of 
individual countries, DG Minh said. 
 
¶8. (SBU) The principal responsibility of each nation is the 
protection of its citizens' human rights, the Director 
General continued.  In Vietnam, individual rights can only 
be secured once the common interests of the community, and 
the nation, are respected.  Finally, given historical, 
political and cultural differences, each nation's values are 
also different, but there needs to be a common international 
understanding about human rights.  No nation should consider 
itself perfect in the area of human rights, and there should 
be no double-standards.  In closing, Vietnam agrees that the 
HRD should be used to raise any and all issues of mutual 
concern, and, in that spirit, Vietnam stands ready to use 
the dialogue to learn from the United States, DG Minh said. 
 
¶9. (SBU) Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has spoken 
often on the subjects of human rights and democracy 
promotion; in a recent speech, she noted that democracy by 
definition cannot be imposed, and that there is no single 
road to building democracy, A/S Lowenkron responded. 
However, the Secretary, the President and the American 
people believe that there are some universal human rights 
principles:  the right for the full political participation 
of the citizens of each country; the right for the 
development of a robust civil society; and, the right to 
have a government that is transparent and accountable to the 
people.  Vietnam's doi moi policy can be strengthened by the 
advancement of the human rights and democracy agenda and, in 
so doing, Vietnam can increase its international stature and 
have a positive role beyond its borders.  Indeed, no country 
is perfect in human rights; in fact, no country is perfect, 
A/S Lowenkron noted. 
 
Criminal Code, Prisons, Prisoners of Concern 
-------------------------------------------- 
 
¶10. (SBU) A/S Lowenkron opened the next agenda item by 
expressing hope that, by frankly raising our concerns in 
these areas, we will be able to see progress before the 
President's visit in November.  Vietnam's National Assembly 
amended its criminal code in 2003 to allow for increased 
rights for defendants.  The purpose was to change courtroom 
proceedings to a more "adversarial" system in which the 
judge presides over proceedings while the State and the 
defense make their arguments (rather than the previous 
system in which the judge helped to guide the State's case). 
 
HANOI 00000669  003.2 OF 008 
 
 
The United States would be interested in learning how these 
changes are being implemented.  Furthermore, the United 
States continues to have concerns about Decree 31/CP, which 
deals with administrative detention.  We are concerned that 
the definition is broad, ill-defined and open to abuse.  It 
also appears that Decree 31 violates the International 
Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).  We urge 
Vietnam to repeal the decree and release those imprisoned 
under it.  At the most recent U.S.-Vietnam HRD in 2002, this 
issue was discussed, and we would be interested in hearing 
whether Vietnam thinks that it would be possible to move 
beyond this decree, A/S Lowenkron asked. 
 
¶11. (SBU) In the view of the United States, detentions, 
trials and sentencings without due process damage Vietnam's 
international image.  Opening court trials to observers, 
journalists and Vietnamese citizens could increase 
confidence in Vietnam's legal system, A/S Lowenkron 
continued.  There have been some arrests, including of Pham 
Hong Son, that appear to contravene the ICCPR because the 
trials were not carried out in a transparent manner.  The 
Unites States would also like to see further reforms to 
allow for unrestricted pre-trial access to an attorney from 
the time an individual is arrested, A/S Lowenkron stressed. 
 
¶12. (SBU) On the subject of prisoners of conscience, Vietnam 
ratified the ICCPR in 1982, the A/S noted.  However, Vietnam 
has detained, arrested, brought to trial and imprisoned 
individuals for seeking to exercise their right to free 
speech.  This is a serious violation of the ICCPR.  We have 
a list of prisoners of concern and those facing travel and 
other restrictions that we will share with the GVN, and, as 
always, we would welcome any further information on these 
prisoners and other individuals.  On the list are a number 
of prisoners of particular concern, such as Pham Hong Son, 
who distributed an essay calling for democracy and 
translated an article from the State Department's website 
entitled "What is Demcracy?"  The American people and 
Congress will not understand why a country the United States 
wants good relations with would arrest someone for 
translating an article from the State Department website. 
Vietnam would send an important message by releasing Son and 
others, such as Nguyen Vu Binh, Do Van My and Pham Van Ban. 
We are also concerned about religious prisoner Ma Van Bay, 
A/S Lowenkron said. 
 
¶13. (SBU) Finally, the United States is concerned about 
prison conditions, the A/S noted.  While we note progress 
since the criminal code came into effect in July 2004, we 
would also note that the last prison visit by the UN Working 
Group on Arbitrary Detentions was in 1994.  The United 
States urges Vietnam to consider full access to prisons and 
prisoners of concern by members of the international 
community.  These are not easy issues, but we seek to 
discuss them with Vietnam in the spirit of mutual 
understanding.  They are at the core of President Bush's 
beliefs and U.S. Congressional interest in Vietnam, A/S 
Lowenkron stressed. 
 
Vietnam Responds: Criminal Procedures Code 
------------------------------------------ 
 
¶14. (SBU) Asked by DG Minh to respond to a number of the 
issues raise, Ministry of Justice representative Dang Hang 
Oanh described Vietnam's efforts at legal reform as being 
aimed towards building a just system that is clear, sound, 
transparent and democratic.  One aspect of this is 
decreasing sentences, expanding the number of set 
punishments and using non-detention sentences, such as re- 
education.  Vietnam is also seeking to decrease its use of 
the death penalty, which now applies to a limited number of 
serious crimes.  Thanks to the revision of the criminal 
procedures code in 2003, there are now strict procedures for 
arrests, interrogations and sending cases to trial.  For 
example, the 2003 code clearly defines who has the right to 
make an arrest:  the chief and deputy chief of the Supreme 
People's Procuracy and military procuracies at all levels; a 
presiding judge or deputy and military judges at all levels; 
appellate judges of the Supreme People's Court or Trial 
Council and the heads and deputies of investigative 
agencies, Oanh described. 
 
¶15. (SBU) Section 2, Article 18 of the revised criminal code 
also spells out rights and obligations regarding searches. 
If an arrest is carried out in someone's residence, a 
communal official or neighbor must be present as a witness. 
Similarly, if an arrest takes place in a workplace, a 
workplace representative and local official must be present. 
The criminal procedures code was also amended in 2003 to lay 
 
HANOI 00000669  004.2 OF 008 
 
 
out rules for arrests in emergency situations.  Following an 
emergency arrest, Article 81 of the criminal procedures code 
requires the local people's procuracy to approve the arrest 
warrant.  If the warrant is denied, the person must be 
released immediately.  The rules guiding administrative 
detentions have also been changed.  In the past, a person 
could be held indefinitely for a national security crime, 
but now the time limit is four months.  The 2003 code 
revisions also established regulations regarding 
interrogations and questions and answers in court.  This was 
to increase the responsibility of prosecutors to make their 
case.  The prosecutor asks questions, and the accused has 
the right to defend himself or herself.  Defense lawyers 
also have increased rights to express their opinions in 
court to ensure that the trial is run in a fair, democratic 
and transparent manner, Oanh concluded. 
 
Prisoners of Concern 
-------------------- 
 
¶16. (SBU) Tran Van Thanh of the Ministry of Public Security 
(MPS) addressed the issue of prisoners of concern.  He noted 
that Ambassador Hanford presented a list of 86 persons of 
concern, both prisoners and those facing restrictions, to 
MPS Vice Minister Huong in October 2003.  MPS discovered one 
duplicate name, decreasing the number to 85 persons of 
concern.  Among these, 13 could not be identified, four had 
not been arrested and two were not present at their 
residences.  Since then, 47 of the 85 have been released or 
received amnesties.  The remaining 19 are serving their 
sentences.  In June 2005, Ambassador Marine presented Vice 
Minister Huong with a list of 13 persons of concern and, in 
January 2006, provided Prime Minister Khai with a list of 17 
persons of concern, including a number on the previous list 
and a number of individuals facing restrictions.  With 
regard to the June 2005 list, seven individuals have been 
amnestied, one person committed suicide, four are serving 
their sentences and one is under consideration for an 
amnesty.  Based on progress during his detention period, 
Nguyen Khac Toan was recently released on the occasion of 
Tet, Thanh observed. 
 
¶17. (SBU) For other cases of concern, based on the necessary 
conditions for receiving an amnesty and in accordance with 
Vietnamese law, MPS will work closely with other concerned 
agencies, Thanh said.  In the time to come, there may be 
additional individuals of concern who receive amnesties, are 
released or receive sentence reductions.  Among those 
individuals raised by Ambassador Marine who are facing 
restrictions, MPS has found that only one is subject to 
probation based on Vietnamese law.  The others are leading 
normal lives in their areas of residence.  MPS stands ready 
to discuss with the United States, through different 
channels, the U.S. list of names.  That said, all the 
individuals of concern who are in prison were tried in a 
democratic and transparent manner and in accordance with 
Vietnamese law, Thanh averred. 
 
¶18. (SBU) On the subject of Decree 31 (administrative 
detention), Thanh said that Vietnam is currently attempting 
to transform into a nation based on rule of law.  Vietnam 
needs legal documents to manage society, protect national 
security and promote human rights.  Decree 31 must be 
understood in that context.  However, no legal document is 
permanent, and Vietnam will consider amendments to Decree 31 
through a survey and review of the decree to ensure that it 
reflects appropriate international standards, Thanh said. 
 
Prisons, and a List of Concerns About the U.S. 
--------------------------------------------- - 
 
¶19. (SBU) Nguyen Van Ninh of the Department of Prison 
Management (MPS) said that Vietnam's prison policies are in 
accordance with Vietnam's regulations and legal code. 
Vietnamese law prohibits mistreatment of prisoners and 
encourages prisoners to reflect on their crimes to become 
better citizens in the future.  Vietnam's humanitarian 
policies and traditions are reflected both in its prison 
laws and in the practice of offering amnesties.  For 
example, in 2004 and 2005 there were four grand amnesties in 
which 35,299 persons were released, including over 100 
foreigners and 25 individuals of concern to the United 
States.  Anyone is eligible regardless of religion, 
ethnicity or citizenship, provided their fellow prisoners 
vote that he or she should be amnestied and Vietnam's 
Amnesty Council agrees, Ninh said. 
 
¶20. (SBU) Turning to a number of issues of concern to 
Vietnam about the United States, Ninh noted that U.S. prison 
 
HANOI 00000669  005.2 OF 008 
 
 
conditions and the treatment of prisoners are not ideal and 
sought further information on the alleged mistreatment and 
sexual abuse of prisoners.  A November 12, 2004, New York 
Times article reported that over 13 percent of U.S. 
prisoners have been sexually abused.  The news surrounding 
Abu Ghraib was also disturbing.  Furthermore, since 2003, 
there have been over 300 cases of cruel and inhumane 
treatment of prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo 
Bay.  According to a number of documents made public by the 
White House in June 2004, the U.S. Department of Defense 
authorized the harsh treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo 
Bay.  Vietnam also has concerns about the detention without 
trial of a number of individuals.  Since September 11, 2001, 
70 persons, including 69 Muslims, have been detained because 
of their refusal to provide information to U.S. courts. 
Finally, the GVN would like further information on the 
secret prisons the CIA has reportedly established in eight 
 
SIPDIS 
countries.  Over the past four years, some 100 suspects have 
been detained in these locales, with 30 of them turned over 
to third country intelligence services.  The German press 
has also reported many rendition flights over its territory. 
The conditions in these prisons are reportedly worse than 
hell.  The GVN seeks U.S. clarification of and elaboration 
on these matters, Ninh requested. 
 
¶21. (SBU) Prior to asking A/S Lowenkron to respond, DG Minh 
noted that the Vietnamese side listened carefully to the 
U.S. delegation's legal and judicial reform recommendations. 
He suggested that  some of these views may be reflected in 
future legislation and legal revisions. 
 
A/S Lowenkron Responds 
---------------------- 
 
¶22. (SBU) The list the U.S. delegation will hand over today 
will have more than 13 names but fewer than 86.  The list's 
content reflects discussions at both the State Department 
and White House and was updated to note Nguyen Khac Toan's 
amnesty, which was welcomed in Washington.  We will continue 
to work with the GVN in the months ahead to share 
information about the individuals on the list to hopefully 
resolve the 21 cases.  The release of Pham Hong Son would 
send a strong signal to the international community.  On 
Decree 31, it is good to hear that the GVN is discussing 
ways to amend the law, even if there are no discussions 
underway to abolish it.  It is not for the United States to 
discuss Vietnam's history, but Vietnam is resilient, 
independent and strong, and Decree 31 does not reflect a 
Vietnam that is now more open and confident, particularly 
after so many difficult years.  We are grateful for the 
comprehensive overview of Vietnam's criminal procedures 
code, but areas of concern remain.  The United States is 
willing to work with Vietnam in a partnership to strengthen 
its legal system and reform efforts.  In response to A/S 
Lowenkron's question about whether there will be further 
amnesties this year, Ninh said that the State President 
makes the decision, and an amnesty or sentence reduction is 
granted based on the subject's progress in prison.  A/S 
Lowenkron stressed that the international community is very 
interested in access to prisons and for observers to attend 
trials. 
 
¶23. (SBU) On the issues of concern to Vietnam, A/S Lowenkron 
said that the incidents at Abu Ghraib are inexcusable and 
indefensible.  While there have been more than 300 cases of 
prisoner abuse around the world, there have been over 400 
prosecutions in the United States for these abuses and over 
100 persons were found guilty.  The question of how the 
United States organizes prisons in the context of the global 
campaign against terror has been debated openly and freely 
in the United States.  This kind of incident was not unique 
in American history, but when it has happened in the past, 
we have counted on a free press, a fully independent court 
system, including the Supreme Court, and a fiercely 
independent and active U.S. Congress.  The American people 
expect nothing less.  The debate on interrogations and 
prisons is conducted on the basis of a free press, rule of 
law and the Congress, A/S Lowenkron stressed. 
 
¶24. (SBU) On Guantanamo Bay, over one-third of the prisoners 
have been released or sent back to other governments.  The 
International Committee of the Red Cross has full and 
unimpeded access to the remaining prisoners.  In fact, the 
days of Guantanamo Bay are numbered, and Guantanamo Bay is 
not Abu Ghraib.  These prisons are not prison camps but 
camps for prisoners of war.  The war on terror is a long and 
difficult struggle and involves many nations.  Progress will 
be fitful.  Working with others, the United States will do 
everything it can to ensure that its principles are honored 
 
HANOI 00000669  006.2 OF 008 
 
 
while these same principles, and its homeland, are protected 
to the full extent of our law and international law.  On the 
issue of renditions, Ramsey Youssef, one of the 1993 World 
Trade Center bombers, is probably the most famous rendition 
case, and this is a procedure that nations need to defend 
themselves against attack.  In short, no country is perfect, 
but the fundamental freedom of debate, rule of law and 
listening to the people through the electoral process can 
help to discover and address problems, the A/S said. 
 
¶25. (SBU) DG Minh wrapped up this agenda item by noting that 
EU Ambassadors and the Swiss Ambassador have been able to 
visit prisons, and said that, while the GVN had arranged for 
A/S Lowenkron to visit a prison in Ho Chi Minh City, the 
delegation decided against it.  A/S Lowenkron stressed that 
it is important for Vietnam to allow the UN access to 
prisons. 
 
Religious Freedom:  Vietnam Describes Achievements 
--------------------------------------------- ----- 
 
¶26. (SBU) Nguyen Thi Bach Tuyet of the GVN's Committee for 
Religious Affairs (CRA) opened this agenda item by 
expressing her government's hope that Vietnam's achivements 
in this area would allow Vietnam to be removed from the list 
of Countries of Particular Concern (CPC).  Over the past 
year, Vietnam has promulgated the Ordinance on Religion and 
its Implementing Decree and the Prime Minister's Instruction 
on Protestantism.  To ensure that local officials understand 
the new legal framework, the GVN has organized training 
courses and workshops for over 2,000 civil servants in 
charge of religious affairs.  Some 12,878 religious leaders 
and followers have also taken part in these courses.  A 
total of 281 courses in 32 out of 64 provinces and cities 
have reached 1,154,735 civil servants at all levels.  The 
central-level CRA is working closely with local authorities 
to promote communication and information sharing and ensure 
that there is broad awareness of the new laws and 
regulations, particularly in the Central Highlands and 
northwest and southwest, Tuyet explained. 
 
¶27. (SBU) In the Central Highlands and Binh Phuoc Province, 
there are currently 300,760 Protestant believers, 32 
pastors, 37 honorary pastors, 105 missionaries and 50 
Protestant congregations.  Out of these 50, 12 are new or 
recently established.  Local authorities in Dak Lak and Gia 
Lai have allocated land for the construction of churches, 
and a new church was recently opened in Gia Lai on February 
¶1.  Also, there are increasing numbers of ordained pastors 
and honorary pastors.  Some 25 students from Gia Lai were 
sent to attend a training course at an institute for bible 
and theological studies, and there have been three courses 
for 113 deacons and an additional 115 deacons in Binh Phuoc. 
The GVN is also considering recognizing additional 
Protestant branches, such as the Baptists.  It has published 
60,000 copies of the Ordinance and the implementing decree, 
with half of them written in ethnic minority languages.  The 
GVN has also produced three films regarding the Central and 
Northwest Highlands and the southwest to help the 
international community understand better the situation 
there, Tuyet said. 
 
¶28. (SBU) There have been a number of important visits to 
Vietnam by religious leaders over the past year, she 
continued.  In 2005, Buddhist leader Thich Nhat Hanh led a 
large delegation to Vietnam for discussions.  Cardinal Sepe 
of the Vatican also traveled to Vietnam to ordain 57 priests 
in Hanoi; he also visited a number of diocese.  EU 
Ambassadors have visited both the Northwest and Central 
Highlands and conducted meetings with religious leaders and 
followers.  Ambassador Hanford himself has visited the 
Central Highlands.  Vietnamese religious organizations have 
sent delegations abroad, including to the ASEM Dialogue on 
Beliefs in Bali.  The CRA and other agencies have also sent 
delegations abroad, and the positive outcomes to date have 
been thanks to the efforts and goodwill of religious 
organizations and followers.  Tuyet closed by seeking 
information the ten Protestant churches that were recently 
burned down in the United States. 
 
Ambassador Hanford Responds 
--------------------------- 
 
¶29. (SBU) Religious freedom is an issue of high interest and 
concern to the international community, Ambassador Hanford 
said.  No country, including the United States, is perfect, 
but respect for religious freedom is a fundamental right. 
It is important to recognize that the large portion of the 
Vietnamese population is able to enjoy a significant degree 
 
HANOI 00000669  007.2 OF 008 
 
 
of religious freedom.  The focus of U.S. concern is on 
particular groups that are not able to freely practice their 
faith.  We recognize and welcome the efforts the GVN has 
made to promote religious freedom and address issues of 
concern.  For example, the GVN has released a number of 
religious prisoners of concern.  These were individuals for 
whom we had made personal appeals, and we appreciate the 
GVN's responsiveness, Ambassador Hanford said. 
 
¶30. (SBU) The most important initiative to date has been the 
introduction of new laws, including the Ordinance on 
Religion and Belief, its implementing decree and the Prime 
Minister's Instruction on Protestantism, the Ambassador 
continued.  These represent a real commitment to change and 
established a nationwide structure to protect new freedoms 
or preserve freedoms established in the past.  It is 
commendable that the Prime Minister demonstrated his 
personal commitment to this issue as reflected in his 
special instruction on Protestantism.  The GVN's efforts to 
reach the May 5 exchange of letters were also significant, 
and we appreciate the GVN's hard work to conclude this 
exchange.  As President Bush said in his meeting with PM 
Khai, this is a landmark agreement, the implementation of 
which will help bilateral relations to reach a higher plane. 
President Bush has a personal interest in this matter and, 
as A/S Lowenkron said, the Secretary has the same interest, 
Ambassador Hanford noted. 
 
¶31. (SBU) We have heard from various religious groups in 
Vietnam that there is increasing openness for religious 
practice, he continued.  In particular, the USG welcomes the 
explicit ban on forced renunciations.  This kind of progress 
goes far in eliminating a divisive issue between the United 
States and Vietnam.  Religious believers in the United 
States can be expected to find it very difficult to 
understand such an extreme practice.  The GVN claimed this 
was not the law of Vietnam, and now that a ban on forced 
renunciations has been codified, this issue has been 
clarified for all concerned parties both at home and abroad. 
The USG also welcomed:  the Evangelical Church of Vietnam- 
North's (ECVN) December 2004 Congress, the first in twenty 
years; Thich Nhat Hanh's visit to Vietnam after 38 years; 
the new latitude granted to religious groups to select their 
leadership; the recognition granted to Grace Baptist Church 
and the Seventh Day Adventists, which opens up a new chapter 
in the recognition of religious groups; the formal 
recognition of over 200 meeting points in Gia Lai Province, 
facilitating over 200 meeting points for Protestants for 
Christmas service in Dak Lak Province; and, providing 
religious training and building permits, which in the past 
have been difficult to secure.  The United States and others 
in the international community recognize these and other 
positive steps.  We hope to work together in the coming 
months to resolve the CPC issues, Ambassador Hanford 
concluded. 
 
¶32. (SBU) At this point, the two delegations agreed to break 
for lunch and continue in the afternoon the religious 
freedom discussion, including our remaining areas of concern 
(afternoon session reported septel). 
 
¶33. (SBU) List of HRD participants: 
 
United States 
------------- 
 
Assistant Secretary Barry F. Lowenkron 
Ambassador John V. Hanford 
Ambassador Michael W. Marine 
Susan O'Sullivan, Senior Advisor DRL/PHD 
Patricia Davis, National Security Council 
Michael Orona, DRL 
Clarissa Adamson, DRL/IRF 
John Adams, Desk Officer MLS/VN 
Marc Knapper, Political Counselor 
Ben Moeling, Political Officer, Hanoi 
Robert Silberstein, Political Officer, HCMC 
Nate Jensen, Political Officer, Hanoi (control officer) 
 
 
Vietnam 
------- 
 
Mr. Pham Binh Minh, Director General, Department of 
International Organizations, Ministry of Foreign Affairs 
(MFA) 
 
Mr. Nguyen Quang Thang, Director General, Department of 
Internal Affairs, Office of the Government 
 
HANOI 00000669  008.2 OF 008 
 
 
 
Mr. Tran Van Thanh, Deputy Director General, Department of 
Security Advisory, General Security Department, Ministry of 
Public Security 
 
Mr. Hoang Van Phan, Deputy Director General, Department for 
External Relations, Committee for Ethnic Affairs 
 
Mr. Nghiem Quang Xuyen, Deputy Director General, Department 
of Prosecution and Investigation of Security Violations, 
Supreme People's Procuracy 
 
Mr. Ngo Cuong, Deputy Director General, Judicial Science 
Institute, Supreme People's Court 
 
Mr. Nguyen Tri Dzung, Deputy Director General, Press 
Department, Ministry of Culture and Information 
 
Mr. Nguyen Van Ninh, Deputy Director General, Prison 
Management Department, Ministry of Public Security 
 
Mr. Nguyen Ba Hung, Deputy Director General, Americas 
Department, MFA 
 
Ms. Nguyen Thi Bach Tuyet, Deputy Director General, External 
Relations Department, Committee for Religious Affairs 
 
Ms. Dang Hoang Oanh, Desk Officer, External Relations 
Department, Ministry of Justice 
 
Ms. Nguyen Thi Thu Quynh, Desk Officer, Department of 
International Organizations, MFA 
 
Ms. Hoang Thi Thanh Nga, Desk Officer, Americas Department, 
MFA 
 
Mr. Le Chi Dzung, Desk Officer, Americas Deprtment, MFA 
 
¶34. (U) A/S Lowenkron and Ambassado Hanford cleared this 
message. 
 
MARINE