VZCZCXRO7701
RR RUEHCHI RUEHDT RUEHNH RUEHPB
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ZNR UUUUU ZZH
R 221006Z MAR 06
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 1185
INFO RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY 0739
RUCNARF/ASEAN REGIONAL FORUM

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 07 HANOI 000667 
 
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SENSITIVE 
 
STATE FOR DRL AND EAP/MLS 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PHUM PGOV VM
SUBJECT: U.S.-VIETNAM HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE: AFTERNOON 
SESSION 
 
HANOI 00000667  001.2 OF 007 
 
 
Continuation of Morning Session 
------------------------------- 
 
¶1. (SBU) In an agreed continuation of the morning session on 
religious freedom and ethnic minority affairs of the 
February 20 U.S.-Vietnam Human Rights Dialogue, before 
beginning the afternoon schedule, Ambassador at Large for 
International Religious Freedom John Hanford presented the 
GVN side with a copy of a recently released Time Magazine 
article entitled "Police Raids Show Vietnam Still Fears 
Illegal Religion."  Ambassador Hanford said that while he 
cannot comment on the credibility of the sources for the 
article, it raises several of the points he wants to 
highlight.  The article mentions the progress Vietnam has 
made in protecting religious freedom, a point Ambassador 
Hanford also stressed.  There are, however, areas for 
further improvement. 
 
¶2. (SBU) First, he said, Vietnam should improve the rate and 
consistency with which it registers and recognizes new 
congregations and churches.  In recent months, he 
acknowledged, the GVN has recognized some congregations and 
registered many new churches.  However, many churches and 
other places of worship have faced long delays or have been 
turned down without adequate explanation.  In particular, 
Ambassador Hanford said, the pace of recognition and 
registration of churches is slowest in provinces in the 
Northwest Highlands, such as Ha Giang Province, singled out 
in the Time Magazine article.  One of the positive points in 
the Vietnamese legal framework on religion is the deadlines 
for official action on applications for recognition and 
registration, but some local officials are not honoring 
those deadlines.  The GVN should consider streamlining 
procedures and paperwork for registration and recognition, 
and thoroughly explain the reasons for rejecting any 
application.  It would be particularly useful, he added, if 
the GVN could provide in a few months time a breakdown of 
the numbers of successful and unsuccessful registrations, 
disaggregated by province and containing reasons for the 
rejection of unsuccessful applications. 
 
¶3. (SBU) Second, the GVN needs to work on educating local 
authorities to properly enforce the law.  The changes in the 
legal framework have begun to contribute to the expansion of 
religious freedom and benefit religious practitioners. 
Despite this progress, Ambassador Hanford said, his office 
continues to receive credible reports of church closings, 
obstruction of worship services and pressure on believers to 
renounce their faith, particularly in the Central and 
Northwest Highlands.  In some areas, he said, particularly 
the Northwest Highlands, local authorities have rejected 
applications for registration and then used the information 
contained in the applications to suppress those groups and 
harass individual members.  Ambassador Hanford took note of 
improvements in the Northwest Highlands, noting that as 
recently as one year ago Ambassador Marine reported that 
local officials in Ha Giang Province stated that there are 
no religious believers at all in Ha Giang.  He stressed that 
the USG does not believe that this is the result of the 
GVN's unwillingness to implement the new framework on 
religion, but instead demonstrates the need for continued 
efforts to educate local officials.  The USG is heartened, 
he stated, by Deputy Director General of the Department of 
External Relations of the Committee on Religious Affairs 
Nguyen Thi Bach Tuyet's description of vigorous efforts to 
train local officials.  The USG respects the territorial 
integrity of Vietnam and does not defend groups who lack 
peaceful intentions.  The USG's concern is for sincere 
religious believers who simply seek to practice their faith 
and in the past have been suppressed. 
 
¶4. (SBU) The Time article is illustrative, Ambassador 
Hanford continued.  The article gives credit to Vietnam, 
mentioning the ordination of new priests and the GVN's 
permission for Thich Nhat Hang to return to Vietnam with his 
entourage.  Specifically, he quoted the article's statement 
that "the days when the Communist Party suppressed general 
religious practice in Vietnam are long gone, and millions 
worship freely in Vietnam."  However, the problems cited in 
the article are the same problems that have been reported to 
the Office of Religious Freedom in the State Department. 
The chief of police in Tung Ba Commune in Ha Giang Province, 
according to the article, is forcing people to stop 
practicing religion there "because it is illegal."  He is 
quoted saying that he caught 20 people "red handed illegally 
singing."  Believers say that when they were caught singing, 
the police beat them; the police claim they only fined the 
singers.  The Protestant leaders there claim that they are 
 
HANOI 00000667  002.2 OF 007 
 
 
members of the Evangelical Church of Vietnam (North) but 
that the local government will not recognize new 
congregations.  And finally, it reports an old police 
practice more common several years ago, which is the 
practice of billeting officials in the homes of local 
believers to keep them quiet.  The article admits that it is 
"unclear" if the Ha Giang crackdown was ordered by Hanoi or 
was the brainchild of an overzealous local Communist Party 
organization, but it adds that fear of ethnic minority 
unrest is also a concern.  These problems may fundamentally 
be caused by poor implementation and awareness of the law at 
the local level, Ambassador Hanford concluded, but the USG 
calls on the GVN to ensure that implementation of Vietnam's 
legal framework for the protection of religion is uniform 
across Vietnam. 
 
¶5. (SBU) Ambassador Hanford also urged the GVN to respond 
"promptly and firmly" to reports of violations of religious 
freedom, such as those alleged in the Time article. 
Individuals must be held accountable, he added, including 
those listed in the article as violating religious freedom, 
if the article is found to be accurate.  This would send the 
clear message that the GVN is standing by its public 
pronouncements, he said. 
 
¶6. (SBU) The third issue the article touches on is Vietnam's 
efforts to release prisoners of concern imprisoned for 
expression of their religious beliefs.  These efforts have 
been very impressive, Ambassador Hanford said, noting that 
only the case of Ma Van Be remains on the U.S. list.  The 
United States remains concerned about the continuing house 
and pagoda arrest of some individuals, and restrictions on 
the right to travel of some others, including Thich Quang 
Do, recently detained for trying to visit Buddhist patriarch 
Thich Huyen Quang.  The United States asks the GVN to end 
travel restrictions and surveillance on individuals "for the 
practice of their faith," and instead ensure that they have 
the same rights as any Vietnamese citizen. 
 
¶7. (SBU) Over the past months, Ambassador Hanford stressed, 
the GVN has made remarkable progress on religious freedom, 
which Ambassador Hanford has expressed publicly to 
"doubters" in the United States.  Just as progress on 
religious freedom helped to pave the way for a successful 
visit by PM Phan Van Khai to the United States in June of 
2005, Ambassador Hanford said, continued progress will 
provide a more solid basis for a successful visit by 
President Bush, as well as an improved environment for 
continued bilateral relations and Vietnamese engagement with 
the international community. 
 
¶8. (SBU) Vietnam's delegation's leader, Ministry of Foreign 
Affairs International Organizations Department Director 
General Pham Binh Minh, thanked Ambassador Hanford for his 
positive assessment of GVN actions, and repeated Vice 
Foreign Minister Le Van Bang's earlier statement that the 
GVN is making many efforts to ensure that Vietnamese 
citizens have all their religious rights.  This effort, he 
stressed, is taken not because of any external pressure but 
because the GVN wishes to truly guarantee the rights that 
all Vietnamese citizens are entitled to.  To that end, the 
GVN will "continue to redouble its efforts to perfect the 
legal system and do its best to ensure that all officials 
strictly implement the documents and regulations on 
religious freedom."  Regarding the article, DG Minh said 
that the GVN will "verify, objectively and in due course," 
the information it contains, and does not want to admit or 
reject anything in it now.  He said the two sides are in 
agreement that considerable progress has been made since 
Ambassador Hanford's last visit. 
 
¶9. (SBU) Deputy DG Nguyen Thi Bach Tuyet from the Committee 
on Religious Affairs said that the CRA is making "many 
efforts" to increase the awareness of local authorities of 
the documents on religious freedom in Vietnam.  The Time 
article needs to be verified, she said, but based on the 
CRA's recent unsatisfactory visit to Ha Giang (where the 
local authorities repeated the statement to the CRA 
delegation that there are no believers in Ha Giang, a 
statement the CRA acknowledges is untrue) the article's 
description of the local authorities' behavior "might be 
true."  If Vietnam were too perfect, she joked, there would 
be no reason to have a dialogue on human rights.  Supreme 
People's Procuracy Deputy DG Nghiem Quang Xuyen said that if 
the article is true, some of the officials mentioned could 
face criminal charges. 
 
¶10. (SBU) Significant progress has been made in the Central 
 
HANOI 00000667  003.2 OF 007 
 
 
Highlands in the past 18 months, DDG Tuyet continued, and 
now the CRA is focused on the Northwest Highlands provinces. 
The CRA hopes to be able to report significant progress 
there, too.  "There is a saying that Moscow was not built in 
a day," Tuyet said seriously, "and so we hope you will show 
patience." 
 
¶11. (SBU) Responding to an earlier inquiry about church 
burnings in Alabama, Ambassador Hanford stated that those 
attacks are thoroughly investigated, and the perpetrators 
severely punished.  Sometimes, he said, the attacks occur 
not for religious reasons but for ethnic or racial ones. 
These crimes are just as serious, and also against the law. 
 
¶12. (SBU) Deputy DG of the Department of External Relations 
of the Committee for Ethnic Affairs Hoang Van Phan 
circulated a pamphlet highlighting the situation for ethnic 
minorities in Vietnam, and identified specific GVN policies 
and accomplishments that showed Vietnam's positive treatment 
of its ethnic minority population.  The State of Vietnam, he 
pointed out several times, guarantees rights to all people, 
including ethnic minorities.  He enumerated many of those 
rights, which amounted to a recitation of the Vietnamese 
Constitution.  He pointed out that the representation of 
ethnic minorities in the National Assembly is actually 
higher in percentage terms than their representation in the 
population at large, and drew attention to several huge 
nationwide infrastructure-building and antipoverty projects 
that focus heavily on minority-populated areas, citing 
extensive statistics on Vietnam's successful infrastructure 
development and poverty alleviation efforts.  (He did not 
comment on the fact that antipoverty and infrastructure 
development programs by definition focus on districts with 
high minority populations in Vietnam, because ethnic 
minorities are by far more likely to live in high-poverty 
districts than majority ethnic Kinh populations.)  He 
concluded his presentation with a request for "support and 
assistance" from the United States for ethnic minority 
development.  Ambassador Marine replied that the United 
States is considering a package of assistance, and will be 
presenting it for discussion with the GVN soon. 
 
¶13. (SBU) Ambassador Hanford said the USG understands that 
the issue of ethnic minority relations is sensitive for the 
GVN, and that Vietnam has more than 50 ethnic groups.  Of 
special interest to the United States is the matter of 
access to those groups, particularly those in the Central 
ighlands who have returned to Vietnam after migratng to 
Cambodia.  Ambassador Hanford said the USG greatly 
appreciates the GVN's willingness to permit access to these 
groups by U.S. diplomats, other country diplomats and 
officials from the UN High Commission on Refugees.  There 
have been concerns that some of the returnees have faced 
mistreatment or detention on their return to the Central 
Highlands, Ambassador Hanford said.  He urged the GVN to 
follow up with local authorities to ensure that the 
guarantees not to mistreat or detain returnees under the 
tripartite MOU among Vietnam, Cambodia and UNHCR are 
respected.  Ambassador Hanford further noted that the U.S. 
commitment to defend the rights of minority populations is 
global; for example, the United States has urged Cambodia to 
respect the rights of Vietnamese minority residents. 
 
¶14. (SBU) DG Minh asked that the United States consider the 
cases of a number of ethnic minorities in the Central 
Highlands who have requested resettlement in the United 
States but have not been able to complete the necessary visa 
procedures.  He said that authorities in Dak Lak have 
recently issued 43 passports to willing travelers, Dak Nong 
has issued 13 and Lam Dong has issued 145.  These are cases 
that have not yet been addressed by the United States, Minh 
said.  Ambassador Marine thanked Minh for the GVN's efforts 
to issue travel documents to the family members of refugees 
admitted to the United States for resettlement, and pledged 
to review specific cases as soon as the GVN can provide more 
detailed information.  In all, he noted, there are 750 
people eligible to rejoin their family members in the United 
States, and the USG hopes to see their relocation completed 
as soon as possible. 
 
National Security and Human Rights 
---------------------------------- 
 
¶15. (SBU) DG Minh opened the session on national security 
and human rights with a plea for the USG to make a special 
effort to understand Vietnam's particular historical context 
when evaluating its human rights record.  "For a long time," 
he said, "national security has been the paramount issue for 
 
HANOI 00000667  004.2 OF 007 
 
¶16. (SBU) Supreme People's Procuracy DDG Xuyen explained 
that the SPP has the right to set the time of detention of 
criminal suspects and to order investigation, and is the 
only agency with the right to bring charges against 
suspects.  Without the approval of the SPP, no Vietnamese 
citizen can be arrested or detained during the investigation 
period.  With this in mind, the SPP "tries to minimize" 
cases where "preventive measures are applied" (read: 
individuals arrested and detained) but the defendants are 
found not guilty or the cases are not pursued.  Fifteen of 
the 344 articles in the Vietnamese Criminal Code deal with 
national security, he said, of which three are violent 
crimes: rebellion, banditry and terrorism.  The SPP is 
currently considering the case of Nguyen Huu Chanh, who 
lives in the United States.  Chanh is wanted in Vietnam for 
terrorist activities, Xuyen explained, and Vietnam would 
like assurances that the United States will cooperate with 
Vietnam to extradite him or compel him to return to Vietnam 
to stand trial if there is sufficient evidence to warrant 
such an action.  Xuyen additionally declared that all of the 
prisoners of concern identified by the United States in 
Vietnam have been charged, tried and convicted of offenses 
under Vietnam's criminal code. 
 
¶17. (SBU) Deputy Director General of the Supreme People's 
Court (SPC) asked how the United States could reconcile the 
Patriot Act, with its provisions limiting civil liberties, 
with its statements urging other countries to consider human 
rights over national security. 
 
¶18. (SBU) A/S Lowenkron responded to DDG Xuyen that if he is 
correct that all of the persons of concern on the U.S. list 
have violated the criminal code, then the criminal code 
itself is a problem.  The criminal code lacks precision, 
containing provisions such as "National Security Crimes" 
that are so vague as to allow the State to prosecute nearly 
anyone.  Due process is also a problem, A/S Lowenkron said, 
noting that from rights to an attorney to the right to face 
one's accuser to the right of appeal, due process needs to 
be critically addressed in Vietnam.  Reforming the criminal 
code, as Vietnam has said it is doing, is a positive step, 
he said.  The phrase "National Security Crimes" should be 
narrowed to prevent abuse. 
 
¶19. (SBU) Regarding the Patriot Act, A/S Lowenkron noted 
that the Patriot Act was passed after lengthy public debate 
in Congress and heavy coverage in our free press and is 
subject to review by the independent judiciary.  The United 
States has faced many similar crises in past wars, and has 
met them by debating necessary national security decisions 
openly and transparently.  This, he said, is the best 
guarantee against abuse by the state.  In the United States, 
the debate is full and diverse, including intra-party as 
well as inter-party discussions.  Vietnam must decide for 
itself what is national security and what is freedom.  The 
more confident and secure a nation is, the more confident it 
can be to open its system.  For decades, he noted, other 
countries have fought to determine Vietnam's future, but now 
only Vietnam determines Vietnam's future.  Advances in human 
rights and openness support Vietnam's economic reform 
policies and demonstrate both the resilience and 
independence of a free Vietnam, he concluded.  Ambassador 
Marine added that on the subject of Nguyen Huu Chanh, the 
United States and Vietnam have been in discussions on the 
topic and we are willing to work with Vietnam to develop an 
appropriate response considering the evidence.  We are 
considering appropriate next steps on this issue, and will 
be in touch soon, he said. 
 
Freedom of the Press and Internet Freedom 
----------------------------------------- 
 
¶20. (SBU) Assistant Secretary Lowenkron said he has heard 
that the National Assembly is considering a new Press Law, 
and hopes that a new law will reduce both official 
censorship and self-censorship.  The current press laws are 
too broad, he stated, and allow anyone to be prosecuted, 
 
HANOI 00000667  005.2 OF 007 
 
 
thus opening up the possibility of abuse.  The Internet is 
also an area where Vietnam should embrace freedom.  The 
United States is ready to work with Vietnam on controlling 
Internet problems, but only those that concern crime, 
terrorism, violence and sabotage of computer networks. 
Outside of those areas, the United States believes in 
Internet freedom, an issue affecting not just Vietnam but 
many other countries as well.  Vietnamese citizens should 
have the freedom to use the internet for peaceful purposes, 
including political ones, without fearing arrest, A/S 
Lowenkron declared.  With this in mind, he again raised the 
issue of imprisoned dissident Pham Hong Son.  "Congress and 
the American people cannot understand imprisoning someone 
for translating and forwarding a U.S. document," he said. 
A/S Lowenkron identified the November 2006 APEC meetings as 
an opportunity for Vietnam to either highlight its openness 
and development, or be subject to criticism from frustrated 
journalists who find themselves unable to access blocked 
Internet sites. 
 
¶21. (SBU) A/S Lowenkron identified a specific list of USG 
requests related to Internet freedom, including: relaxing 
restrictions on Internet usage; eliminating the requirement 
that cybercafes register the personal information of 
customers; releasing those who have been imprisoned for 
expressing peaceful political views; recognizing increased 
Internet access and usage as an improvement of human rights 
in Vietnam; and, seeing the Internet as a way to promote 
investment and trade in Vietnam and allow Vietnam to compete 
effectively in a globalized world. 
 
¶22. (SBU) Deputy Director Nguyen Tri Dung of the Ministry of 
Culture and Information's Department of the Press, who spent 
much of the day's sessions tapping ostentatiously on the GVN 
delegation's only laptop computer, read the official GVN 
response from a roughly mimeographed sheaf of papers.  The 
GVN attaches great importance to freedom of the press and 
freedom of speech, he intoned, which are fundamental rights 
of the Vietnamese people and guaranteed under Article 69 of 
the Constitution.  The GVN is trying to implement freedom of 
speech and freedom of the press, he continued, especially in 
the development of common strategies and policies for 
national development.  Vietnamese newspapers, he said, are 
not censored before being printed or published.  As evidence 
of Vietnam's press freedom, he cited the rapid increase in 
the number of media outlets in TV, radio, newspaper and 
Internet channels.  The advance of technology is 
increasingly meeting the information needs of the Vietnamese 
people, he added. 
 
¶23. (SBU) However, the Internet is new in Vietnam, he said. 
In contrast to the United States, which has had the Internet 
for more than 40 years, Vietnam was only connected to the 
Internet in 1997, and then access was limited to scientists. 
It was not until 2002-2003 that Vietnam began to see 
widespread Internet access; now, however, Vietnam boasts 
more than 2.9 million Internet subscribers and more than 10 
million users.  Vietnam, he boasted, is "second in the world 
in the percentage of the population using the Internet and 
telecommunication devices."  (Note: Not likely.  End Note.) 
Dung further elaborated on the specific numbers of schools 
connected to the Internet at all levels of education.  This, 
he said, illustrated the dual nature of the Internet: on one 
side of the coin, the Internet brings advantages to people, 
but on the other, it brings disadvantages, particularly to 
children.  Protecting children from the evils of the 
Internet, particularly online games, pornography and violent 
sites, is the reason for Vietnam's regulation of the 
Internet.  The Ministry of Culture receives "tens of 
thousands" of letters from concerned parents regarding the 
harm the Internet causes their children, and there have been 
reports of children quitting school to spend their time 
playing online games and surfing the Internet from cafes. 
 
¶24. (SBU) Vietnam is aware, Dung continued, of the need for 
an "information society" built on the twin pillars of 
information and communication.  This is why Vietnam is 
promoting Internet usage.  This process, however, is 
difficult for Vietnam and the GVN is in need of experience 
sharing, technical assistance and human resources 
development from the international community.  The existing 
regulations on the Internet, Dung conceded, are just 
"circulars" which can easily be changed or amended.  "It 
takes time to perfect the system," he said.  DG Minh added 
that the press in Vietnam plays a valuable role in ferreting 
out corruption, and as a result a number of officials, 
including high officials, have been arrested and prosecuted. 
 
 
HANOI 00000667  006.2 OF 007 
 
 
¶25. (SBU) A/S Lowenkron acknowledged that the growth in the 
number of media outlets in Vietnam is positive, but said 
that the issue is not the amount of programming available 
but what that programming is.  Vietnam could and should stop 
blocking Radio Free Asia, both the radio signal and the 
website.  Vietnamese domestic Internet demand represents a 
thirst to enter a globalized world, he said.  The United 
States and Vietnam can agree on protecting children from 
pornography and violence, but the prisoners of concern to 
the United States such as Pham Hong Son are not 
pornographers.  This is an issue that will remain 
contentious, he predicted. 
 
¶26. (SBU) DG Minh replied that Pham Hong Son was convicted 
of espionage under Article 80 of the criminal code, not for 
using the Internet.  (Note: This is disingenuous.  Son's 
Internet use provoked his arrest; his conviction on thinly 
supported espionage charges stemmed from that, though the 
Internet was not mentioned in the actual conviction.  End 
Note.)  A/S Lowenkron stated that on this subject, we 
disagree. 
 
¶27. (SBU) Concluding the talks, DG Minh declared that the 
Dialogue was a success, allowing both sides to "share 
experiences, learn from each other and increase mutual 
understanding."  We agree on a number of issues, and remain 
in disagreement on some others, he said.  The GVN is willing 
to conduct further meetings and exchanges of views.  A/S 
Lowenkron closed with an appeal to work hard on making this 
Dialogue "results oriented," noting that we would be 
ultimately judged not on the quantity of meetings we hold, 
but what those meetings produce. 
 
¶28. (SBU) List of HRD participants: 
 
United States 
------------- 
 
Assistant Secretary Barry F. Lowenkron 
Ambassador John V. Hanford 
Ambassador Michael W. Marine 
Susan O'Sullivan, Senior Advisor DRL/PHD 
Patricia Davis, National Security Council 
Michael Orona, DRL 
Clarissa Adamson, DRL/IRF 
John Adams, Desk Officer MLS/VN 
Marc Knapper, Political Counselor 
Ben Moeling, Political Officer, Hanoi 
Robert Silberstein, Political Officer, HCMC 
Nate Jensen, Political Officer, Hanoi (control officer) 
 
 
Vietnam 
------- 
 
Mr. Pham Binh Minh, Director General, Department of 
International Organizations, Ministry of Foreign Affairs 
(MFA) 
 
Mr. Nguyen Quang Thang, Director General, Department of 
Internal Affairs, Office of the Government 
 
Mr. Tran Van Thanh, Deputy Director General, Department of 
Security Advisory, General Security Department, Ministry of 
Public Security 
 
Mr. Hoang Van Phan, Deputy Director General, Department for 
External Relations, Committee for Ethnic Affairs 
 
Mr. Nghiem Quang Xuyen, Deputy Director General, Department 
of Prosecution and Investigation of Security Violations, 
Supreme People's Procuracy 
 
Mr. Ngo Cuong, Deputy Director General, Judicial Science 
Institute, Supreme People's Court 
 
Mr. Nguyen Tri Dzung, Deputy Director General, Press 
Department, Ministry of Culture and Information 
 
Mr. Nguyen Van Ninh, Deputy Director General, Prison 
Management Department, Ministry of Public Security 
 
Mr. Nguyen Ba Hung, Deputy Director General, Americas 
Department, MFA 
 
Ms. Nguyen Thi Bach Tuyet, Deputy Director General, External 
Relations Department, Committee for Religious Affairs 
 
 
HANOI 00000667  007.2 OF 007 
 
 
Ms. Dang Hoang Oanh, Desk Officer, External Relations 
Department, Ministry of Justice 
 
Ms. Nguyen Thi Thu Quynh, Desk Officer, Department of 
International Organizations, MFA 
 
Ms. Hoang Thi Thanh Nga, Desk Officer, Americas Department, 
MFA 
 
Mr. Le Chi Dzung, Desk Officer, Americas Department, MFA 
 
¶29. (U) A/S Lowenkron and Ambassador Hanford cleared this 
message. 
 
MARINE