This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 PRETORIA 003288 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED 
 
PLEASE PASS TO EB/TRA/AN/CDEMARS,JBYERLY 
DOT FOR OST/MSTREET AND MBODMAN, AND DAS SUSAN MCDERMOTT 
DOC FOR ITA/EALFORD 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: EAIR ECON SF
SUBJECT: SOUTH AFRICA: GAUGING SAG'S COMMITMENT TO OPEN 
SKIES NEGOTIATIONS 
 
REF: A. SECSTATE 146214 
     ¶B. SECSTATE 138074 
     ¶C. SECSTATE 84774 
 
¶1. (SBU) Summary.  South Africa's Chief Director for Civil 
Aviation Godfrey Selepe told Econoffs on August 16 that that 
he believed that any negotiations should include the U.S. 
concept for Open Skies as just one of the options to be 
discussed, and not the only one.  Selepe said, "If there were 
an open minded discussion that led to Open Skies, then we 
could discuss the modalities of a possible Open Skies 
agreement."  Later the same day, however, Selepe called the 
Embassy to say that Minister of Transport Jeff Radebe was 
keen to have negotiations and that one needed to "approach 
talks with an open mind."  Selepe and his delegation are 
planning to arrive in Washington on August 23 for talks on 
August 25-26.  South African delegation members are listed in 
Paragraph 7.  End Summary. 
 
Open Skies 
---------- 
¶2. (SBU) Econ M/C and Econoff met with Chief Director for 
Civil Aviation Godfrey Selepe about upcoming civil aviation 
negotiations in Washington on August 25-26.  Econ M/C 
explained to Selepe that the United States wanted to make 
sure that the ultimate objective of the talks was Open Skies, 
rather than incremental changes to an already liberal 
bilateral agreement.  Econ M/C also indicated that the United 
States would be willing to talk about transition periods and 
phasing for certain Open Skies obligations. 
 
¶3. (SBU) Selepe replied that this appeared to be the same 
position of the U.S. delegation that visited South Africa in 
2001, i.e., that the only liberalization option was Open 
Skies.  If that were the case, he said, "We (would) be 
confronted with the same situation that we were four years 
ago."  He went on to say that he "had serious problems with 
this approach," which he viewed as an "imposition" rather 
than a negotiation.  "What I will not allow is imposition," 
he added. 
 
¶4. (SBU) Selepe then said, "If there were an open minded 
discussion that led to Open Skies, then we could discuss the 
modalities of a possible Open Skies agreement."  He went on, 
"It (was) not possible, to be directed toward Open Skies 
without other (available) options," he said. 
 
¶5. (SBU) After Minister Radebe met with Secretary Mineta in 
January, Selepe explained, there was a frank discussion about 
what was and what was not possible.  If the United States had 
shut the door to entertaining other options during this frank 
discussion, then South Africa would never have agreed to 
aviation negotiations with the United States.  However, "If 
Open Skies (were just) one of the options, then I (would be) 
perfectly willing to talk." he said. 
 
"I Won't Do That" 
----------------- 
¶6. (SBU) By way of elaboration, Selepe said that the problem 
with the U.S. model was that it "was not open enough."  At 
this point, he pulled out a fax from the Office of Aviation 
Negotiations sent in May that discussed the U.S. position on 
the application of safety and security requirements, the fly 
America program, ownership and control issues, the "big bang" 
issue, cabotage, double disapproval pricing regime, and the 
2010 World Cup event (Ref C).  Selepe said that if the United 
States wanted to negotiate Open Skies on its own terms, then 
South Africa "had better get another negotiator to do that, 
because I won't do that." 
 
"Er, I Guess I Will" 
-------------------- 
¶7.  A few hours later, Selepe called Econoff to say that he 
had just spoken to his Minister, Jeff Radebe.  Selepe said 
that Radebe was "keen that the talks should go ahead." 
Selepe told Econoff that with the flexibility that the 
Minister had given him, he believed that progress would be 
made.  The meeting should go ahead as planned.  Selepe 
specifically stated that he did not believe that the U.S. 
side would view the talks as a disappointment.  When asked if 
he wanted to revise what he had said to us earlier that day, 
however, Selepe said that he did not.  "My position is 
clear," he said.  However, it was also clear that Selepe did 
not want to be seen as preventing the meeting End Comment. 
In fact, he later sent an e-mail stating: "Following my 
meeting with Messrs. Ripley and Hartley (from the U.S. 
Embassy) this morning, I have had a discussion with our 
Minister.  He is keen that the talks should go ahead.  We 
will, therefore, approach the discussions with flexibility 
and (an) open mind." 
Delegation List 
--------------- 
¶8. (U) At the end of the day, Selepe's office asked about 
hotels near the State Department and provided us with the 
following delegation list: 
 
Mr. Godfrey Selepe, Head of Delegation 
Chief Director, Civil Aviation 
Department of Transportation 
 
Ms. Thande T. Maswanganye 
Acting Director for Bilateral Licensing, and Permits 
Department of Transportation 
 
Ms. N. Bella Sithole 
Assistant Director, Bilateral Affairs 
Department of Transportation 
 
Mr. D. Hay 
Manager, International Affairs 
South Africa Airways 
 
Mr. A Balazzi 
Group Manager, Route and Traffic 
Airport Company of South Africa 
 
The South African delegation will depart on August 22 and 
thus arrive on August 23, two days before the negotiations. 
 
¶9. (SBU) Comment: Post believes that Washington negotiators 
should go ahead with talks next week, but should approach 
Selepe with care.  Given his reversal with the Minister, 
Selepe may find himself in a vulnerable position right now. 
If he discovers that an Open Skies agreement with the United 
States fits within the negotiating parameters that his 
Minister has provided, he may be quick to accept this 
negotiating course and talks may ultimately be successful. 
We recommend that the U.S. chief negotiator meet with Selepe 
on August 24 to discuss the agenda for the next two days and 
to ask Selepe what he needs to move forward on an Open Skies 
agreement. 
FRAZER