This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 BRASILIA 001044 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
 
E.O. 12958:  N/A 
 
TAGS: PARM PGOV PREL PTER BR UNSC
SUBJECT:  BRAZIL: FORMER U.S. AMBASSADORS DISCUSS UN 
 
REFORM, NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION WITH GOB. 
 
¶1. (SBU)  Summary.  From March 30 to April 1, former 
Ambassador Thomas Pickering and Ambassador Alec Watson met 
with former Brazilian Ambassador to the U.S. Rubens 
Barbosa; former Foreign Minister Luiz Lampreia; Marcelo 
Vasconcelos and Paulo Alvarenga from the US and Canada 
Division at the Ministry of External Relations (MRE); and 
Achilles Zaluar from the UN Affairs Division at the MRE to 
discuss UN reform and nuclear proliferation. Ambassador 
Pickering is currently the Senior Vice President for 
International Relations at Boeing and is a member of the 
Boeing Executive Council.  Ambassador Watson is the 
Managing Director for Hills and Company which provides 
consulting services to Boeing.  Ambassador Watson provided 
the following readout to EmbOffs. End Summary. 
 
Former Brazilian Ambassador to U.S. Rubens Barbosa 
--------------------------------------------- ----- 
¶2. (SBU) On March 30, Pickering met with former Brazilian 
Ambassador to the U.S. Rubens Barbosa to discuss UN reform 
and nuclear proliferation issues.  Barbosa told Pickering 
that the GOB's primary interest was in securing a UNSC 
permanent seat with veto power.  The GOB, Barbosa said, 
would not support rotational seats for Latin America, but 
added that the GOB would accept a permanent seat without 
veto power if offered. Barbosa told Pickering that the GOB 
is working closely with Japan, Germany, and India. 
Barbosa further reported that the GOB was pleased that 
Senator Norm Coleman (R-MN) supported the GOB?s UNSC 
aspirations during his recent trip to Brazil since this is 
the first time a high-level US government figure has 
supported publicly the GOB's aspirations. 
 
¶3.  (SBU) Pickering and Barbosa discussed concern about 
Brazil?s nuclear aspirations and uranium enrichment program 
that stemmed from incorrect remarks made by former Minister 
of Science and Technology Roberto Amaral in early 2003. 
Amaral stated publicly that the GOB was seeking the full 
nuclear cycle, including the capacity to develop nuclear 
weapons.  Barbosa confirmed that Amaral's remarks were 
incorrect and the GOB had no intention of developing or 
acquiring nuclear weapons due to a provision in the 1988 
Constitution.  Moreover, Brazil and Argentina established a 
bilateral agency that inspects and investigates all alleged 
infractions, Barbosa said.   When asked about international 
nuclear program inspections, Barbosa reported that the GOB 
is currently negotiating an agreement with the IAEA 
(Additional Protocol) on a uranium enrichment inspection 
program.  The GOB claimed that it wanted to protect more 
efficient centrifuge technology that it developed and 
wanted to avoid sharing this technology with others. 
Barbosa said he believed that the GOB's unique technology 
claims were probably false and added that enriched uranium 
would be used for peaceful purposes.  He also noted that 
the Brazilian navy is working on developing a nuclear 
powered submarine. 
 
Former Foreign Minister Ambassador Luiz Lampreia 
--------------------------------------------- --- 
¶4. (SBU) On March 31, Pickering raised the same issues with 
former Foreign Minister Luiz Lampreia.  Lampreia told 
Pickering that Foreign Minister Celso Amorim was "obsessed" 
with securing a permanent UNSC seat and has convinced 
President Lula that this should be a top priority for 
Brazilian foreign policy.  Lampreia found this approach 
irrational given the GOB's domestic challenges, especially 
since the GOB had neither the interest nor the capacity to 
influence global events.  Lampreia further added that while 
becoming a UNSC permanent member would enhance national 
prestige, it would not match Brazil's current political and 
economic interests. 
 
Ministry of External Relations 
------------------------------ 
¶5. (SBU) On April 1, Pickering met with Marcelo 
Vasconcelos, Director of the Department of North America 
and the Caribbean Affairs; Paulo Alvarenga, Chief of the 
United States and Canada Division; and First Secretary 
Achilles Zaluar, Deputy Head of the Division for United 
Nations Affairs.  Pickering discussed many of the same 
issues and asked more specific questions about the GOB's 
position.  Pickering asked about Brazil's views on the 
French proposal to make NPT withdrawal more difficult or 
apply residual obligations to those who withdraw.  Zaluar 
noted that the GOB had no position on the proposal and 
would refrain from adopting one because it will chair the 
upcoming NPT Review Conference. 
 
¶6. (SBU) Pickering inquired about Brazil's view on IAEA 
Director General El Baradei's proposal for a moratorium on 
new uranium enrichment and reprocessing plants.  Zaluar 
quickly replied that it was fine, "as long as it does not 
affect us."  He observed that the GOB was expanding its 
enrichment facility in Resende, Rio de Janeiro state.  When 
Pickering pushed harder on how many centrifuge cascades 
were operating at Resende and whether they were enriching 
uranium, Zaluar said he was not sure, but he believed that 
only one cascade was functioning.  Concerning the NPT 
Additional Protocol, Zaluar said twice that "it was under 
very active consideration in the Brazilian government." 
When pressed further, he said that although there were some 
who support and oppose the protocol the question will be 
resolved by the President. 
 
¶7. (SBU) The MRE was reluctant to comment on the terrorism 
definition included in the Secretary General's report 
because it was not an issue they monitored. Nevertheless, 
Mr. Zaluar said that he was unaware of any GOB problems 
with the definition. 
 
¶8. (SBU) When Pickering asked Zaluar about the GOB's 
aspirations for a UN permanent seat, Zaluar said that 
Foreign Minister Amorim said repeatedly that there were 
several issues:  1) the current P-5 will not give up their 
veto; 2) Brazil does not want a new category of members 
other than the current permanent and non-permanent members; 
3) many countries do not want more members with vetoes. 
Finally, Zaluar added, the veto will not be an obstacle, 
but the formula reconciling these three points will take 
place only at the end of the negotiating process.  The MRE 
believed that there had been positive signals in support of 
UN reform, most notably Secretary Rice's public support for 
Japan and former Secretary Powell?s "non-opposition" stance 
to UN reform during his trip to Brazil in October 2004. 
Zaluar believed that this silence was positive, but 
Pickering cautioned against interpreting USG silence before 
the USG position was made clear. 
 
¶10. (SBU) When Pickering asked about the GOB position on 
the indicative vote, the P-5 agreement, and not using the 
veto in certain circumstances, Zaluar seemed to indicate 
that Brazil viewed positively the idea of allowing P-5 
members to vote "no" without using their veto.  He said 
Brazil recognized that Russia and other P-5 members would 
never accept any change in their P-5 status and attributes, 
so "this was not a stumbling block," Zaluar added. 
 
¶11. (SBU) Pickering asked Zaluar why the UNSC continued to 
ignore DPRK and Iran.  Mr. Zaluar said that some UNSC 
members would not oppose sanctions on these countries but 
warned that a consensus was needed since the credibility of 
the Council was at stake.  Zaluar believed that the 
Europeans remained hopeful on Iran and in the case of the 
DPRK, UNSC members wanted to allow the six party talks to 
operate.  The UNSC was already engaged in non-proliferation 
issues (the application of the NPT and IEAE statutes), 
Zalour added. 
 
Vice President and Minister of Defense Jose Alencar 
--------------------------------------------- ------ 
¶12. (SBU) On April 1, Pickering asked Vice President 
Alencar about the GOB stance on nuclear proliferation and 
specifically mentioned the GOB's negotiations with the 
IAEA.  The Vice President said that Brazil "is always in 
favor of all international measures to end the development 
of nuclear weapons.  Any technological advance in Brazil is 
directed toward peace." Alencar added, however, that "there 
are applications of technology to the production of energy 
to which Brazil must be attentive."  "If there is a country 
that is an example on this issue, it is Brazil," he 
averred.  When asked about the GOB stance on the proposal 
to establish a five-year moratorium on new enrichment and 
replenishment efforts, Alencar observed that he could not 
reply without deeper understanding of the issue.  Then he 
added, "What I can say philosophically is there is no one 
in a position of responsibility who thinks in any other 
terms than peace.  We do not want war, but if any one 
occupies one kilometer of our territory we would go to 
war." 
 
DANILOVICH